Can an untouchable master a daemon weapon?

By Zarkhovian_Rhythm, in Dark Heresy Gamemasters

DocIII said:

I can see arguments that the null loses because he can't force the daemon to use its power to do what he wants.

Providing that the "power" in question actually is the daemon actively helping the wielder. The power could just as well be a side-effect of the daemon's presence in real space.

It all bottles down to metaphysical interpretation. One being that a bound daemon is actually a bound piece of the warp, trapped in real-space (the bindings mak:ing it impossible for the "thing" to escape back to the warp, and doing anything else that its creator didnt intend for it to do). The power is therefore steming from its own being (making it its own "battery" of sorts). Sure a very localized and constrained power (in comparison to a free daemon that still maintains its connection to the warp), but a power nontheless. And that power being bound within an object (a weapon) suffuses the object with unnatural side-effects (like being harder to destroy, having an edge sharp as sin, making the edge burn with pink fire etc.).

With this interpretation the daemon weapon could work in the hands of a blank.

Another interpretation is that the damon within a daemon weapon is constantly connected to the warp but restrained from escaping back to it in some way. Therefore the weapon gains its powers because the bound daemon within effectively makes it a lightning rod for warp energy, and that energy gets unleashed upon the victims the weapon is turned against.

With this interpretation, the damon weapon would not work when a blank is present, because the blank nullifies the powerflow from the warp to the weapon. (no juice, no twinkling lights).

Basically it is up to the Gm to decide what take he has on metaphysical mattes in the WH40K universe. As there is no official material on the subject. I personally go with the first interpretation. Partly because its cooler and more interesting, and partly because its goes in lieu with another RPG i've played, where you can create magical artifacts powered by: (yep you've guessed it) bound daemons! Those daemons worked as their own infinite power source, and the whole system concering artifact creation maked a whole lot of sense (slightly inspired from real-world physics and electronics), when comparing it to WH40K fluff (where there are no explanations what so ever). But thats my individual take on it. I can give arguments for them, but it will never be the "right" or "wrong" answer (until an errata shows up that is)...

A very intersting question

I would say that they can master it should they have the willpower to do so. However I'd say that some of the powers that the sword has would be supressed by the blanks power. Of course there is also corruption to be had for using it.

The sword might not be able to talk to the blank directly but that doesn't mean it can't reach out and influence the group demonio.gif

So...Yes a blank could over come the sword, but being a blank would greatly limit the weapons potential in their hands......thus the weapon might be trying to influence another PC to take and use it to escape from the Null. I sense the seeding idea for an adventure to be had.

Mastering the weapon involves being able to psychically battle the daemon for supremacy. Blanks are incapable of this act. The supremacy also means that the wielder has to actively tell the daemon to do his thing.

As per Varnias' previous arguments it's presence may or may not allow some effects to occur, based upon the interpretation of the gm.

I do agree that the plot hooks are almost limitless. It's like the Fellowship of the Ring only in the far future. Now I wonder who would be the Boromir of the group... gui%C3%B1o.gif

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

I do agree that the plot hooks are almost limitless. It's like the Fellowship of the Ring only in the far future. Now I wonder who would be the Boromir of the group... gui%C3%B1o.gif

Me! ME! :D

As a matter of fact, my character has recently succumbed to a very "Fellowship of the ring"-like curse. However its not a daemon weapon but.. ehm.... *cough*Halo Device*cough* *whistles innocently, noting people are staring angrily at me*

What? It wasnt my fault! It just looked like a harmless trinket, how the heck was I supposed to know?

Take it as a lesson, if you EVER encounter harmless trinkets, chanses are quite high that putting them on will have SEVERE side-effects! Horrible, fleshbinding side-effects.

But its cool! I've stumbled upon a "solution" of sorts that will "save" my PC. And no, its not suicide actually (seems like a stupid idea anyway since he was hit in the chest by a frigging las-cannon and SURVIVED without having to burn fate points) somehow I feel that most suicide attempts would prove to be embarassingly ineffective. And sure the solution itself will include mandatory fate point burning, along with the fact that he wont get rid of the device's induced insanity points. But what the hell, i can manage with about 40-50 insanity points. No big deal at all. XD

Varnias Tybalt said:

DocIII said:

I can see arguments that the null loses because he can't force the daemon to use its power to do what he wants.

Providing that the "power" in question actually is the daemon actively helping the wielder. The power could just as well be a side-effect of the daemon's presence in real space.

It all bottles down to metaphysical interpretation. One being that a bound daemon is actually a bound piece of the warp, trapped in real-space (the bindings mak:ing it impossible for the "thing" to escape back to the warp, and doing anything else that its creator didnt intend for it to do). The power is therefore steming from its own being (making it its own "battery" of sorts). Sure a very localized and constrained power (in comparison to a free daemon that still maintains its connection to the warp), but a power nontheless. And that power being bound within an object (a weapon) suffuses the object with unnatural side-effects (like being harder to destroy, having an edge sharp as sin, making the edge burn with pink fire etc.).

With this interpretation the daemon weapon could work in the hands of a blank.

Another interpretation is that the damon within a daemon weapon is constantly connected to the warp but restrained from escaping back to it in some way. Therefore the weapon gains its powers because the bound daemon within effectively makes it a lightning rod for warp energy, and that energy gets unleashed upon the victims the weapon is turned against.

With this interpretation, the damon weapon would not work when a blank is present, because the blank nullifies the powerflow from the warp to the weapon. (no juice, no twinkling lights).

Basically it is up to the Gm to decide what take he has on metaphysical mattes in the WH40K universe. As there is no official material on the subject. I personally go with the first interpretation. Partly because its cooler and more interesting, and partly because its goes in lieu with another RPG i've played, where you can create magical artifacts powered by: (yep you've guessed it) bound daemons! Those daemons worked as their own infinite power source, and the whole system concering artifact creation maked a whole lot of sense (slightly inspired from real-world physics and electronics), when comparing it to WH40K fluff (where there are no explanations what so ever). But thats my individual take on it. I can give arguments for them, but it will never be the "right" or "wrong" answer (until an errata shows up that is)...

I know I replied in another thread that diverged into this but in truth there isn't so much of an interpretation when it comes to the rules. The weapon, as per the official material, has powers that can be exploited by the user if they can master the daemon inside. Strictly speaking by offical rules the blank would have to supress their own 'blankness' to make the mastery test (which if I remember correctly they can do for limited periods of time). The benefit of being a blank would come into effect if the daemon won the challenge to control him or posess him the effect would only last as long as the daemon itself would be able to supress the bodies own 'blankness' before being 'cut off' from the blank and loosing control of the body or means of influencing them. The consequence of this would diverge into interpretation on whether after having made the mastery roll the weapon would always be 'subservient' to the blank dishing out the cool nifty warp influenced powers or if everytime the blank wanted to use the weapons cool nifty powers they would have to once again lower their 'blankness' and attempt to once again master the weapon leading to a twist on the phrase: "With great power comes great responsibility...to exert a hell of a lot of effort to get this damnable warp-spawned 'uber weapon to do my bidding so I can banish other damnable warp-spawned entities and enemies of the God-Emperor, may we be blessed to bathe in his purifying light and burning will forever..."