As to why 'Paragon' should be different... in my eyes at least... a God, truly, is something unknowable, beyond the true comprehension of the race that worships it. That race ascribes the term 'God' to it purely to label something ephemeral, to place a label on the focus of their Faith. So the Emperor as God is to make him apart from, not a part of, Humanity. My Pre-Heresy Emperor is very much Human. A God is feared, a Paragon is admired. A God pulls, a Paragon leads. Humanity acts in the name of God. A Paragon acts in the name of Humanity.

Paragon vs Scientist? Well, that comes down to motivation. Both might be the same person, physically and mentally, capable of amazing feats and the results of those feats advance Mankind. But the Scientist wants knowledge, his creations are either the goal itself or steps towards further creations, further discoveries, more knowledge. That Humanity benefits from what he does is almost a side-effect. A Scientist is driven to answer questions, solve riddles, provide explanations to miracles, produce wonderous objects - to expand the boundaries of That Which Is Known. A Paragon may also do all these things, but the discoveries and the creations and the knowledge are inconsequential - what he does is only judged by him in terms of how it helps others, of how it advances Humanity as a race. When they both make a terraforming device, the Scientist will say "I can colonise worlds with this!"... the Paragon will say "We can colonise worlds with this!".

Koolzoid said:

Did you not say that the Emperor was human, not a God. Thus surely you're talking about how he is perceived rather than what he actually was , or was made into by those perceptions. Basically, your average Arthur figure, both in terms of the literature (who he was and who he was perceived to be), and perhaps the reality (the various ways that he is looked at through literature, history, and archaeology).

Koolzoid said:

Rather well said.

Koolzoid said:

This comes from the limitations of my descriptions, since I see Scientist as a nurturing focus. It's more passive than the aggressive God, who leads overtly and almost aggressively (perhaps the closest to your Paragon as far as I can make it, just without the stupendous [-ly silly] physical abilities), whereas the Trickster leads through manipulation, and less charisma or even righteousness.

So, perhaps a semantic difference more than anything else, since the other part is character/personality .

Kage

Semantics perhaps, yes - but their are connotations inherent in the labels as well that bespeak their differences.

As a term, 'Scientist' speaks of knowledge, of logic, of understanding. Whether a Scientist imposes a spell of Order upon the Universe, or seeks to understand the Chaos inherent in the Universe, their senses are out and ahead, looking forwards. A Scientist only looks behind him to learn from the work of others, and I don't really see the Pre-Heresy Emperor as needing to learn a lot (in terms of pure Science) from the rest of Humanity.

Similiarly, as a term, 'Paragon' speaks more of virtue - of heroism. The Paragon isn't focussed on forging ahead, whether it be in terms of Galactic conquest or Scientific advancement - he is focussed on leading his people. He is a beacon to Humanity, a guiding light by which they can find their place within the Universe. He often looks behind to see that his people are well cared for, and looks ahead only to take them somewhere new.

We are looking for our own 'truths' about the DH history here, with regards to the Emperor - but irrespective of what that truth is, how would Humanity have viewed him at the time, all those millenia ago? Would some have questioned his motivations? Almost certainly. Would some have marvelled at what he achieved? It would be hard to imagine otherwise. Would some have admired him and yearned to be like him? The 'cult of personality' concept would believe this to be true. Would some worship him and pray to him? Yes, I believe they would. To these people, he would have been Trickster, and Scientist, and Paragon, and God, and probably other things beside. But would any of them know 'The Truth'? Not at all. Because 'The Truth' (that Truth that we're essentially discussing in this thread) has no bearing on what he achieved and where it led him. All 'The Truth' will tell us is why he did it.

A Paragon does it because he must. A Scientist does it because he can. A Trickster does it because he wants to. A God.... well, a God probably doesn't even realise he did anything special in the first place. After all, who are we mere mortals to discern, let alone comprehend, the motivations of the Divine?

My Pre-Heresy Emperor was a hero to Mankind. My Post-Heresy Emperor is a plague upon Humanity.

I know this is terribly non cannon but Ive often wondered, post heresy, if the emperor hasn't been replaced wholesale by one of the C'tan or prehaps is becoming akin to one of them. But then im not sure he's eating quite as many psykers as he used to. Still I like the idea of an ancient god becoming fat and lazy of the backs of humanity (who just serve themselves up!) as its cousins try fruitlessly to exterminate all life. And it would explain where the hell those C'tan blades that Callidus assasins carry come from (if they've ever explained that I must have missed it)