2 questions. Chum/Femme Fatale and Fetal AI

By Karnivor, in Android: Netrunner Rules Questions

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Q1. The runner encounters Chum as the first ice. The next Ice he bypasses with the Femme Fatale special ability. He now takes dmg from Chum. Right?

Q2. What happens when the runner doesn't have 2 credits to pay? He takes dmg and gets the agenda? He takes no dmg and doesn't get the agenda? Nothing happens? He is forced by the rules to steal it.

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1. Correct. The runner encountered the ice (required to use FF's ability), and did not break all its subroutines, so Chum deals damage.

2. it's worse. The runner takes 2 damage (because the runner accessed the card) and does not steal the agenda. The runner, in order to steal the agenda, must pay 2 credits. While it's true that the runner cannot decline to steal an agenda, the runner *can* decline to pay an additional cost (due to choice or not having the money). If that results in an Agenda not being stolen, ah well. The 2 net damage will be waiting for him next time!

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radiskull said:

1. Correct. The runner encountered the ice (required to use FF's ability), and did not break all its subroutines, so Chum deals damage.

2. it's worse. The runner takes 2 damage (because the runner accessed the card) and does not steal the agenda. The runner, in order to steal the agenda, must pay 2 credits. While it's true that the runner cannot decline to steal an agenda, the runner *can* decline to pay an additional cost (due to choice or not having the money). If that results in an Agenda not being stolen, ah well. The 2 net damage will be waiting for him next time!

1. Not sure I agree with you there. The rules clarification on bypassing (and anyone feel free to correct me with an actual ruling, or better reasoning) seems to suggest that when you bypass a piece of ice, you are not considered to have encountered it at all. This is due to Femme Fatale being able to get you past a Data Raven or Tollbooth without taking a tag or paying 3 credits, respectively. So, IMHO, since chum specifically states that it affects the next piece of ice "encountered" during the run, if there's only the marked ice left, the runner can bypass it to avoid chum triggering.

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stormwolf27 said:

The rules clarification on bypassing (and anyone feel free to correct me with an actual ruling, or better reasoning) seems to suggest that when you bypass a piece of ice, you are not considered to have encountered it at all.

No, it doesn't suggest that. You need to encounter the ice for a bypassing effect to take effect. The bypassing occurs immediately when the bypassing effect triggers, so any other conditional abilities that trigger upon encountering the ice have no time to take place.

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Please find me an effect that uses a form of the word "bypass" that does not ALSO use a form of the word "encounter".

(Hint: there are none.)

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Does a “When the Runner encounters…” ability on a piece of
ice resolve before or after the Runner can bypass that ice with
Femme Fatale?
If two cards have the same trigger condition (such as the
Runner encountering the ice), then the effects are simultaneous
and the player whose turn it is resolves his first in the order
of his choice. So if the Runner bypasses the ice, then the ice’s
ability does not resolve.
Ok, I'm trying to figure this out.
When Femme Fatale bypasses a piece of ice, none of the ice's abilities resolve, like paying 3 credits when encountering tollbooth, because the runner would resolve his effects first.
Chum's ability to deal 3 net damage would still kick in, because it is not an ability on the bypassed ice, and will take effect after the ice is encountered.
Is this correct?
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Carist said:

Does a “When the Runner encounters…” ability on a piece of
ice resolve before or after the Runner can bypass that ice with
Femme Fatale?
If two cards have the same trigger condition (such as the
Runner encountering the ice), then the effects are simultaneous
and the player whose turn it is resolves his first in the order
of his choice. So if the Runner bypasses the ice, then the ice’s
ability does not resolve.
Ok, I'm trying to figure this out.
When Femme Fatale bypasses a piece of ice, none of the ice's abilities resolve, like paying 3 credits when encountering tollbooth, because the runner would resolve his effects first.
Chum's ability to deal 3 net damage would still kick in, because it is not an ability on the bypassed ice, and will take effect after the ice is encountered.
Is this correct?

Ack! A Cylon. Run!!!

Unfortunately, yes. I went back and reread the FAQ several times, just to make sure I had a clear understanding. The bad thing is, according to a paragraph I hadn't seen before posting earlier in this thread, when you use a bypass feature like Femme Fatale or Inside Job, none of the subroutines are broken. Your best bet if you really wanna continue after the chum is shell out the credits if ya got em and break that second ice… or just break chum in the first place and you don't have to worry about it… come on, it's only a 4 STR code gate. There are plenty of breakers that would eat this for breakfast, if you've even got a little cred.