Not sure if anyone already posted this but ths is an interesting read from Graeme Davis on his thoughts around the new (and old) Enemy Within, and third edition. http://graemedavis.wordpress.com/2013/01/02/the-enemy-within-arrives/#comments

Having GMed this game twice today at a convention for comple newbies I have to say I agree absolutley with his statement that the bits help the game run smoothly. Granted the players were not new to RPGS (some Pathfinder guys, a few through RPG video gams etc) but there was little lag between a 5-10 minute "heres how it works" and good times and great characterizations. And there is alot of complexity to the game rules as written.

A good read is also this blogs entry from that figthing fatnasy guy:

http://fightingfantasist.blogspot.de/2012/06/wfrp-not-syphilitic-not-knee-deep-in.html

He is a littel obsessed with this flying ship back from the days of GWs beginning but if you cut of the rants there is some usefull information regarding the founding of the 1st Edition of Warhammer.

Yea, the picture appears in the back fo 1st edition. The "purists" claim that it was just thrown in there as extra art to stimulate the imagination.

In my book it's on p 252 and another one is on p 353

So, the real question is, "would you have them in your games?"

There are also some fan versions of "drivable ships" from Marienburg (at least in model form), where the ship is essentially a cart. Considering all the discussion about Imperial Steam Tanks that had been built by dwarfs, I can only speculate, who or what would build a flying ship?

jh

Emirikol said:

And, of course, the purists are absolutely right. There's a lot of random art just stuffed in the back of WFRP1 to break up the text and tables.

My answer to your question, as a part-time WFRP1 purist, is yes, of course I would. The few flying ships to be found in the Old World (there are three, but only one is currently flightworthy) were created by wizards, mostly elementalists. Two were designed and constructed by the rival magical colleges in Middenheim and Altdorf. The third was built in Nuln by a team of independent wizards and engineers, funded by a consortium of merchants and coaching houses.

Cheers

Sparrow

As elementalists are dismissed as "shamanistic" hedge wizards and witches at least since 2e (see RoS p 53,55) and Winds of Magic, which college(s) would be most likely to still make flying ships?

There is a decent amount on elementalism in 1e, but I dont' know that the contents are worth the effort of major conversion.

jh

Emirikol said:

I've never been a fan of colour magic and the colleges (even in RoS WFRP1), but the logical college for this sort of thing is probably the Celestial. Gold Wizards might be involved with the Nuln ship and its business backers, assuming one leans towards the view that Gold Wizards can succumb to avarice. Amber Wizards might want to create a Great Bird of the Skies, as might the Druids (who you can always draw on for elementals).

Cheers

Sparrow

Emirikol said:

*ahem*

Who wouldn't?

LOL. True that

I'd vote gnomes. They'd do it to keep up with those pesky flying bast'ads - the PIXIES.

Imagine though Ratmen (if they existed) in airships (the bloated, stretched carcasses of mutant, globular rat-ogres grown in fields underground like Tulups, flying bove Altdorf seeding the clouds with Warpstone dust or Nurgle's spores (SPOILER if I ever get around to writing that scenario)… Problem is the surrounding communities keep getting hit b/c of unwitting Celestial wizard activity.

jh

Emirikol said:

Not really, the Elemental spells offer nothing that their College counterparts don't, and the fluff wasn't reconciled with the rest of the WH cosmology.

I always thought there were other spell orders out there, only the empire has the 8 schools of magic. Somewhere maybe theres a country where they have Demonoloists or Elementalists as the norm. The Slaan/Old ones, seem to me when engineering the world, must have used some form of Elemental magic. I do know in Fantasy Battle, there were Elementals used in the battles. Maybe those types of spells became restricted or banned, who knows.

All it would take would be to look back at the old spell lists and class them as a form of hedge mage from the Border princes or any of the other areas of the world. Just cause a spell uses the red wind for example, doesnt mean a bright wizard knows that spell.

The warhammer world doesnt have realms of fire air etc does it? I know it mentions a realm of the dead, but is that just aethyr void itself? So anything not of the world would be from the magic realm?

I have only ever heard of one flying ship made by a mad trollslayer inventor. I doubt they last too long, what with so many type of flying creatures that could rip them open. There are spell of levation, all you need then is the wind to blow you were you wish to go. Just strikes me to take alot of magical power to do this. If there was a lull in the winds of magic, the ship would come crashing down.

I think certain elements of the "elemental" magic has just been incorporated into the colleges, at least if I understand elemantalism correctly. The traditional "elements" find representation in several of the colleges. Fire obviously fits with the Bright Order, but water, earth and air are mentioned as being as aspects of some of the other colleges (I can't remember which at the moment) .

If Elementalism meant something different back then, then… well maye it isn't represented. Deamonology however has just been subsumed into chaos sorcery in general.

I have to say I quite like the colleges as an idea for how magic is split up. After reading the second edition Realms of Sorcery it struck me that it doesn't tend to split things up in the ways most fantasy magic systems I have come across do. I don't know if it is original as such, but it is definitely more unusual.