LethalDose said:

Consider what we’ll have after the 3 different core rulebooks have come out: Fringe Life, Military, Jedi & Force. All separate entities, but all set within the same Classic timeline. The easiest way to tie them all together and weave continuity among the concepts… Force Unleashed.

The Force Unleashed setting (for better or for worse) has aspects of all 3 FFG rulebooks: espionage, cloak-and-dagger politics, bounty hunters, Force exiles, Light and Darkside powers, Rebels and Imperial Forces, planet hopping, Force –based enemies, gladiator arenas, corruption, redemption, and destiny. Plus George Lucas had even considered making a TFU movie(s) at one point, so its cannon is stronger than other EU material.

Force Unleashed could also expand upon the rules of all 3 books and offer alternatives a la “Unearthed Arcana” (WoC 3.5) or “Ultimate Combat” (Pathfinder) with variations of established guidelines. Not to mention Expanding on Force & Destiny by introducing Unleashed powers , gray powers, and gray Force Organizations (if not already discussed previously).

The Force Unleashed really is the bow that should tie everything together into a neat cohesive package.

Donovan Morningfire said:

Legacy (like KotOR) is disconnected enough from the main storyline to treat it like an alternate universe (which is why I think it works).

Unknown said:

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's off base of what the corebooks actually are, and also disagree with your points.

You point out that the TFU "Ties them all together". I disagree. The way I see it, while there were Militiary and Fringe elements in the game, it was a game about Jedi. The TFU's writer stated, repeatedly, that the game was about "

The Core books are not like like Unearthed Arcana. Each core product, EotE, AoR, and F&D, is a complete stand-alone game system that is designed to address one of these facets of the "Star Wars Experience". To put this in D&D 4th ed terms (only chosen because it provided some convenient terminology), what FFG is doing is akin to making one product that encompassed the PHB, DMG, and MM (and maybe parts of the "Complete Martial" if there is such a thing; I neither know, nor care) for Martially-focused campaigns, and then making a separate stand alone product that encompassed the PHB, DMG, and MM again for Arcane-focused campaigns, and then a third similar product for Divine-focused campaigns. So, if you asked "Whats the fourth core book here", it could be Primal, or whatever other shlock categorization WotC vomitted to sell more splat. But, for this idea to work, this new corebook would have to be something that was recognizably D&D and not already covered in the previous material.

So, to answer "whats the 4th corebook", someone would have to come up with something that's recognizably Star Wars and isn't subsumed in Fringe, Military, or Jedi/Force. If you say FTU has parts of all of that, but doesn't incude anything that hasn't been covered, its not even eligible for a corebook. And KotOR, and Legacy, do any of these represent fundamental facets that aren't covered in the three products already announced? Personally, I don't think so. While you could argue YZ in the NJO, I can't/won't comment on that. The sooner that crap is struck from continuity the better. The $#!t was worse than the prequels by full orders of magnitude.

Better than doing this and complaining about EU (which is what it seems like most of this thread has become), can we get constructive and talk about the adventure modules, and campaign settings, and interactive concepts, etc etc that we want to see in this project? Perosnally, I think speculating about whats in a 4th corebook that probably doesn't even need to exist is silly at best, and misses the material that would produce way more productive discussions.

-WJL

PS For the record I agree that most of the EU sucks and can't wait for it to be white-washed by the new Disney produced films.

I doubt the is going to be a 4th core book. What the three planned (and what little we know of them) does not cover, is politics - Tapani sector, Lord of the Expanse box from WEG sort of thing. I'm not saying its a good idea (nor that its needed), but this could be a book aimed at the "high-life", upper-class corruption and intrigue. Duels between dandy princelings and love stories à la Romeo and Juliet… again, not saying its a good idea or that its needed, at least not a whole core book - a small supplement sure, but nothing more.

Am I the only one who appreciated the NJO books? and the Traviss books? Man there's much hate aimed and those stories.

I mean, I can appreciate the fact that the NJO series was … sub-standard, most SW-books are. Its not great litterature, its simple entertainment, with less nudity than Fifty Shades, but artistically at about the same level. That said, I really enjoyed reading NJO way back when.

Now, the new films are going to be exciting to watch - to quote a tweet quote by ars technica : "Worrying that Disney will ruin Star Wars is like worrying a second iceberg will dive down to hit the Titanic." - but I will still have fond memories and use the already written EU for my version of the Galaxy, and I hope FFG will do the same.

Doc, the Weasel said:

There's also the interesting tidbit that according to retailers, the Legacy era comics proved to be quite popular, with a new Legacy series (this time featuring what appears to be a female descendent of Han & Leia) slated for the near future.

So much like KOTOR/SW:TOR being the "distant past" and safe for the reasons you cited, the Legacy comics-verse also has a degree of popularity, something a lot of the post-RotJ EU can't claim outside of a very small selection of material, with NJO and later super-arcs being base-breakers of varying degrees amidst the fandom.

LethalDose said:

No. If we use the logic of your post, then even FFG isn’t even following what you’re describing. Watching the Gen Con announcement video on

Furthermore, all three corebooks are separate, stand-alone entities. While I would imagine that there may be some sort of cross-compatibility (in the same way there is limited cross-compatibility between FFG Dark Heresy, Black Crusade, and Rogue Trader) in the future, that prospect is as of yet an unknown quantity and is speculative. There are other threads on this board that have already gotten into the compatibility issue of FFG Star Wars between the 3 books.

So, therefore, as you stated, a 4 ^th core rulebook would need to offer something new. And I reiterate, Force Unleashed: 4 ^th core book that provides in-depth rules for full and complete cross-compatibility between the first 3. Plus, “Unleashed”, meaning “unchained”, “let loose”, the segregated rules of each book are now set free! Rules for scaling characters up and down to fit an all-inclusive campaign, like bringing your Force Sensitive Exile into the Jedi Order, or having your fully fledged Jedi Knight have to go into hiding, stifling his connection to the Force, and slowly watch his powers wean over decades of exile… All while being hunted by the Empire’s denizens. One of the easiest ways to explain a new concept is to provide context and example through story. Force Unleashed (especially the SAGA Edition campaign book for instance) has aspects of all 3 core rulebooks and focuses on a broader picture than merely Starkiller. It provides a great setting for multiple adventures that utilize some of the best parts of Edge of the Empire, Age of Rebellion and Force and Destiny combined. It could also provide new rules. Unleashed powers, Intrigue, skill challenges, it could even incorporate ideas similar to WFRP’s “conservative and reckless” dice, stances, and actions (as possible expansions). And since it's "Unleashed" it could also talk about powers, enemies, and campaigns beyond RANK 5 (i.e. "Epic level" material). The point is, if a 4 ^th core rulebook needs to have something the others don’t have, then having a way to maximize cross-play and compatibility is the way to go, especially if it’s FFG’s intent to remain within the classic era. And TFU has all aspects of the 3 books present, as well as falling into the correct timeline.

Thank you.

Jegergryte said:

If the first three are successful, expect a 4th. After all, when they renewed DH/RT/DW they added BC and OW to the lineup…

They will find something to base it in.

Jegergryte said:

Quite possibly. I quit reading all SW novels after the first two Jedi Academy books… ≤SHUDDER≥ For me, my personal EU is WEG rulebooks, the Thrawn trillogy, Truce at Bakura, Courtship of Princess Leia, the three Daly Han Solo books, and the 3 Lando books, and the Dark Empire 1 & 2 series. Because that's all I've read.

Jegergryte said:

I wouldn't count on it - the locations for the adventures are invented.

aramis said:

I agree.

(And despite it all, it is fun to get a 'new game' every year - rekindles the interest a bit, yknow)

And I do think it makes a lot of sense to make sure there are Episode 7 tie in products available to go with the films. I got The Force Unleashed book from WOTC because I really liked the game, and I do stuff like that all the time.

(Or maybe it doesn't - direct movie tie in video games are usually dreadful (you usually want Batman Arkham Asylum, not the The Dark Knight game), and novelisations of movies are usually dreadful, so, er…)

--

My only reservation with junking the EU is I am not entirely sure what of the bits I like and dislike about Star Wars are EU.

For instance, are Wookie Life Debts (which I like) EU? How about Wookies not using their claws (which I don't like)? Stormtroopers being vaguely good at anything is probably mostly EU, and even stuff like A-Wings being really fast is probably EU.

So when we junk the EU, what exactly goes with it?

ErikB said:

We only junk what we personally don't like. If we take the stories form the Star Wars universe as legneds of old, like the king arthur and merlin myths, then we can reconcile what we believe happened to all of the other dramatisations that authors have put out. By taking this view even the new films won't destroy the EU as it could all have happened, from a certain point of view….

I think that if there is a 4th core book then focusing on political intrigue and the core worlds would be the way to go, this would effectively cover the senate of the old republic and the back-stabbing of the Empire era, which would be fun. IMHO.

Everything else can be covered in sourcebooks or setting guides.

ErikB said:

Wookiee life debts and claws are not mentioned in the movie (Tim Zahn invented the wookiee claws and the reason they don't use them) so no need to keep them.

Basically anything not mentioned in the movies is fair game to be jettisoned. Much like The Clone Wars cartoon did with Mandalore. That said if the new films rewrite the EU then they could decide to reuse stuff already in the EU.

Maybe FFG decided to base their SW games strictly in the OT timeframe to avoid (or minimize) being trumped by the new movies in a couple years.

On the original topic of the thread the publishing plan after the three core books may be setting material to tie into the new movies and the possible rewrite of the EU. As WEG did 20-25 years old maybe FFG supplements could greatly influence the direction of a new EU.

I don't think the coming movies have any influence on their decision to focus on the original trilogy, but canon may be a factor. The original trilogy are the considered the highest canon, so they may have wanted to base the game on the most core information, adding to it as they see fit. Thus allowing them to cherry pick the things they want to include beyond it.

Jegergryte said:

You are NOT the only one who enjoys the NJO and Traviss books. The New Jedi Order was a fantastic story arc (minus the Kathy Tyers book) filled with some truly epic moments! Han beating his fist against the closed Falcon ramp, screaming for the stranded Chewbacca, as he escapes an exploding planet… Corran Horn’s battle with Shedao Shai on Ithor… Anakin’s sacrifice… Ganner Rhysode last stand (EPIC!!!)…

Dell Ray books won the Lucas Licensing contract back from Bantam/Spectra just before Ep. 1 came out, and they wanted to celebrate it in a big way. And what a great way to begin than to put the Jedi completely out of their element. The Yuuzhan Vong are such a great foil to the Jedi. They’re absent from the Force, their armor resists lightsabers, and their technology is completely alien. It’s a GM’s dream! Jedi are so OP in both film and otherwise, falling only to a Sith Lord’s light saber or an overwhelming swarm of clone troopers. It was such a treat to see the Jedi knocked down a few pegs and have to rely on their wits to survive—something the Jedi in the prequels were utterly inept at even attempting.

NJO put Lucas’ prequels to utter shame. So pay no attention to the haters, Jegergryte . It’s actually quite amusing to see people hate on the EU when it’s the very thing they’re roleplaying in. Star Wars roleplaying IS Expanded Universe and FFG has already begun to pull from the books. Stop whining, haters. We’re all here because we love Star Wars.

I have read a lot of the EU stuff and enjoyed most of it. However, I do want an EU reboot with these new movies for several reasons. I don't want the new movies to redo EU story already out there or be constrained by the establish EU stories. I want something fresh and new, but I don't want the timeline after RotJ advanced too much.