Greetings, brethern.

Inside "Creatures Anathema" you can find an entry for an "Vermin Speaker" Elite Advance. Said "Speaker" is a psyker without any sanction. He has a Trait "Unsanctioned".

Here comes my personal problem:
The only difference him and a "sanctioned" psyker is that he/she

- does not roll on the chart providing the effects of santioning (since he wasn´t)
- does not add extra years resulting from the sanction trip to terra (which never happend).

Besides this, he works completely like a "sanctionite". Same power, same difficulities, no changes to "perils of the warp" or anything else.

Does this mean that the "Sanctioning" done on terra is without any real effect? Besides torturing the psyker, scaring the hell out of him and perhabs placing some ward tatoos on his lipst? Is everything about "teaching the save methods of how to deal with warp powers" nothing but lie and imperial propaganda? As far as these rules are concernd, a "wild" psyker is as "save" in the use of his powers then a "sanctioned one".

Thanks to FFG in the case of an answer!

You know I read that and wondered the same thing. What exactly happens on Earth that is so **** important that you have to go, when its obvious that being unsanctioned (according to RAW) is exactly the same. What prevents an unsanctioned from saying they were sanctioned? And why do they HAVE to go to Earth for.

Our group thought this really wierd and totally discounted it. We figured an unsanctioned had a better chance for perils of the warp, and so are discounting this and houseruling it out.

On one hand that means that the verminspeaker will never be a PC character, on the other hand none of us liked the verminspeaker, so it wasn't a big deal to us

Other than if anyone besides your team who know you sees you using psychic powers you will be reported and hunted down and sent on the black ships or killed. Even some of you team might report you if they are puritans. You will have to be even more careful than a sanctioned psyker in using your power. And unlike the sanctioned psyker, you won't have the sanctioning mark anywhere to prove that you are "safe" (or as safe as a psyker ever gets). It's a great RP opportunity.

Sanctioning, IMO, is as much a matter of training as anything else; Sanctioned Psykers are far more in control of their powers than Nascent Psykers because they've been taught to control them better...

That doesn't, however, preclude other psykers being similarly capable without being Sanctioned by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica. Such psykers aren't legal in any way, shape or form, but there is nothing to prevent them learning to control their powers as well, if not better, than a Sanctioned Psyker. Taking an extreme example, an Eldar Warlock would be Unsanctioned by the strictest definition of the term (he hasn't been deemed an acceptable risk and useful asset to the Imperium by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica), but Eldar Seers are almost universally more potent and safer in the use of their powers than humans.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Why this is a valid point, this should lead to a RAW with a "Unsanctioned Trait" that includes a simliar span of years "added" to the age of the pc. With the difference that he did not spend this time on a black ship holding cell / on holy terra but spent the time to get the expierence to gain the same amount of control a sanctioned "learns" on terra.

This is however not the case. Hence my statement that (by RAW) the sanctioning on terra seems to be without benefit.

Gregorius21778 said:

Remember, a good portion of that time is likely taken up being locked in an armoured, warded cell (possibly in a comatose or heavily-sedated state) aboard a Blackship as it hops from world to world collecting psykers before heading to Terra to drop them off... and then those psykers who're lucky enough to be Sanctioned afterwards (generally the most stable of the psykers gathered by the Blackships in the first place) get all that time spent aboard the Blackship wiped from their memory (as mentioned in Purge the Unclean).

My point is that the extra age conferred by the Sanctioned trait is not inherently time spent training...

The distinction is largely irrelevant anyway, at least from a mechanical perspective - without express GM permission (even with an Elite Advance Package), a Psyker character can't "opt out" of being Sanctioned, and aside from a few years of age and a minor, often superficial sanctioning effect, the trait doesn't actually do anything save for represent the character's status as a legitimate psyker. Consequently, being Unsanctioned (the opposite effect) shouldn't have any significant drawbacks unless the abilities the trait is packaged with are significantly more potent than a Psyker character might normally have, as it isn't specifically the Sanctioning (one way or the other) that confers the relative stability of the psykers powers, but rather other factors tangentally related to the Sanctioning or lack thereof.

The Verminspeaker Elite Advance Package makes the basic assumption that any character taking it is sufficiently stable without the officialdom of Sanctioning, whether naturally, through rudimentary trial-and-error learning, or through being taught by an outside source (such as an older, more experienced Verminspeaker).

I'd try it the other way around: PC Verminspeaker psykers are those who despite never having been sanctioned are about as stable as the sanctioned ones, deemed safe enough by certain radical inquisitors to be more helpful in their acolyte cells than on the black ships.

We're just looking at the end result. Say you encounter two millionaires - one who has got there by years and years of work and one who has won a lottery. Would you infer from the existence of the lottery winner that hard work is no use? The Verminspeaker is just the one-in-a-million case where a psyker stable enough without sanctioning was discovered by an inquisitor and directly put to work because he didn't feel like loosing him to Terra.

Sanctioning just weeds out people who dont have the willpower to control their power, it doesnt really teach them how to control it I believe.

Its pretty much torture to find your breaking point.

- And remember, the emperor needs to be fed psykers on a regular basis, which is the main reason they take them to earth.

As stated above, "Sanctioning" doesn't actually do anything to make you more resilient. It's literally getting permission (being "sanctioned") to use psyker powers.

Sanctioning just weeds out people who dont have the willpower to control their power, it doesnt really teach them how to control it I believe.

I don't think that. All that learning of mantras, reciting of catechisms and focusing the mind does have its uses - it's just that some can do it without it or have created their own rotes by which they can semi-safely harness the warp.

It's more just an oversight than anything. Just add 20 to warp phenomina rolls or something for unsanctioned guys.

Pneumonica said:

I don't agree at all. If that was the case, then there would be no reason to send them to earth. It could be done locally by already "sanctioned" psykers and those that didn't pass the muster would then be sent to Earth to feed the Emperor. Plus if all it was, was getting permission, then there wouldn't be side effects from the process, some of which are obviously rather nasty, and definatly they wouldn't have to meet the Emperor directly.

Now I can agree that the unsanctioned may just be the odd duck who sanctioned himself in some ways, but if it was that easy, pyskers wouldn't need to go to Earth either and meet the Emperor, they could simply again be trained locally by cadres of psyker schools. Still, its obviously become imperiative that all psykers (or most of them) go to Earth, and to simply say "well this is the exception to the rule" is kind of bogus.

Sure there are obvious Roleplay problems involved, but there obviously is something important about them going to Earth and meeting the Emperor that matters as well that isn't being addressed in the rules.

Xathess Wolfe said:

I don't think there's anything in the DH material (maybe somewhere else?) that specifically states that the psykers that are taken to Terra meet the Emperor. There is only one side effect that shows a psyker has gazed at His radiance, but it seems to be something special even amongst sanctioned psykers as opposed to the rule.

Either way, going to Holly Terra doesn't have to have game mechanics attached to it for it to be important. What if it's primary importance is strictly legal and social tradition?

Since the Adaptus Astra Telepathica has it's headquarters on Holly Terra (and theres the whole emperor thing too), in the early days, that might have been the only decent testing sight and all psykers that were found out in the galaxy, through necessity, had to be shipped back for testing. Ten thousand years latter, and psykers are still shipped to Terra even if it has no practical purpose anymore or could be done better and more expediently in another fashion. The Imperium has never really been known for it's willingness to embrace new ideas and new ways of doing things. Things are done the way they're done because that's the way they've always been done. Questioning the way something is done too much or too loudly and the last thing you'll hear is "HERETIC!" right before a bolt sails through your head.

The sanctioning is referred to as testing in the psyker description and why wouldn't sanctioning just be a long series of brutal torturous tests to find the psykers breaking point? If they break too soon, they're tagged as Emperor Kibble, hold out a bit longer but don't make it to benchmark #2, and they're soulbound and turned into Space Phones. If they can hold themselves together and push beyond the soul shattering tortures, they'll prove themselves to be an acceptable risk to the Imperium and sanctioned without the need to be soul bound.

It could be seen a bit like getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Anyone can carry a concealed weapon in the States, but it's most definitely not legal to do so. In order to do so legally, you have to get a permit (permission... sanctioned). Each state has different regulations and criteria that must be met in order to get the permit. It seems common for there to be a mandatory weapons safety classes, a certain degree of proficiency must be displayed in a series of shooting tests with the weapon that one is allowed to carry, etc. It's not hard for someone to learn all of what they will need to pass their states tests and receive their permit, but no matter how good they are with the weapon, how safe with it they are, they still have to prove such to the state in a proscribed fashion. Perhaps psykers just have to prove they can carry their powers about freely and just need the permit (in the form of a Psyker Brand) to do such without getting shot on sight for breaking the law (and dooming the planet).

The need to go to earth could stem from the fear that the Emperor runs out of "Food" (Psyker Souls), so that when the need arises they can feed him possible sanctionites.

Or perhaps more important it allows those on earth to indoctrinate all psykers, while locally sanctioning Psykers would allow a planetary governor to legally create a group of Psyker who are only loyal to him.

Well I can sort of see tradition, but I also see that as a stretch. The Empire has tons of traditions, and not a single one of them deals with sending volitile unsanctioned psykers to Earth.

Also the fluff, all the fluff, is rather adament, that unsanctioned psykers are a huge... HUGE danger to human society, that the danger they possess is staggering. Admittedly some of that is Imperial propaganda, but still.

See I could create a system where the Inquisition would oversee the training of the Psykers, not the local govenors, so that the local govenors would be powerless to control the system, stopping them from having an army of trained psykers. Hell nothing really is stopping them from doing that now, if they wanted to they could subvert the system and have 1 out of every 10 psykers sent to some private planet of the govenors to train. In fact I'd be surprised if some govenor wasn't doing that exact thing somewhere in the Imperium.

Also, if the Emperor needed more crunchy pykers, the Administorium simply ups the tithe sent back to earth, and only the very strongest stays out in the galaxy.

Bottom line is I think it was a cop out to "balance" sanctioned and unsanctioned player characters. Fluff wise, unless we start stretching fluff, there is a reason they go to Earth and its an important reason dealing with the Emperor.

But balance wise you can't have one Psyker be sanctioned and basically be super-strong, and a nother player being unsanctioned and have a huge Roleplay millstone around their neck, as well as mechanical issues involved as well. To make the character even remotely appealing to play they needed to balance it mechanically.

Now I still feel its a cop-out, as does the group I play with, but heh, its the direction FFG chose to go, and I respect that.

Xathess Wolfe said:

I have to disagree with your every point. You have to send them to Earth because Earth is where they have to die in order to light the throne - you don't want them spending a long trip with a bunch of their fellow psykers without all of them thinking there's hope they'll be spared. The "side effects" are of the process of sanctioning - tests, trials, and occasionally if one is "just barely acceptable" a few extras (like warding their mouth to make them unable to say the names of demons). They have to know you'll endure hardship and tribulation to know you won't immediately go Chaos. As for "meeting the Emperor", a little propoganda never hurt anybody.

It should be remembered that only a minority of Psykers are ever Sanctioned, even including Astropaths and those sent off to fuel the Astronomicon. As many as 90% of the psykers gathered by the Blackships will be sacrifices (not including those deemed too dangerous for transit and executed either before or during the journey). The Blackships go back to Terra because that's where the overwhelming majority of the cargo is needed (sacrifices need to be on Terra, or they're useless for that purpose, the same can be said for the Choir of the Astronomicon, who are selected randomly from the Primaris and Secundus/Soul-Bound psykers, and Astropaths need to be Soul-Bound to the Emperor before they can be used)... anyone else along for the ride will be plucked from the crop when they get there.

So, in that regard, it's less that Sanctioned Psykers are dragged off to Terra for Sanctioning, and more that they're already on Terra when it happens because that's where the overwhelming majority of Psykers are needed in the first place, and even the ones who aren't needed there are still required to go (because of Soul-Binding).

Xathess Wolfe said:

Its a form of control. The imperium does things to benifit the imperium, NOT to benifit its people. If the psyker doesnt truly believe that he is a danger to those around him, and the emperor is the true salvation, then psykers can create their own power base. And they do too, which is the reason for the witch hunters.

Psykers have FAR too much power to allow being kept in the normal rungs of society, not to mention the fact that if people didnt fear them, there would be no reason to turn them in, so you wouldnt get the ones needed to feed the emperor.

Its true that only the ones with the most control are let back into society. But its not a stretch to believe that you cant achieve the same control on your own.

In my mind, this is quite straightforward.

All psykers have to be reported and sent on the black ships to Terra. This process serves several purposes:

• It quarantines the psykers in the black ships. If someone really goes wrong a ship is lost and not a world.
• It gives the Inquisition and other specialists aboard the black ships time to work at sorting and breaking down the psykers.
• It centralizes processing of psykers in Terra, where all interested bodies are found: Inquisition, Astropath, Emperor, Grey Knights, etc...
• And if there's a problem the resources and knowledge is at hand to deal with it: Adeptus Custodes, Inquisition, Grey Knights, Astropaths, etc...

A modern parable for sanctioning is FDA drug approval. The FDA process doesn't change the drug, it merely sanctions its use in the populace. In order to pass the approval process a drug must meet certain requirements, that in the eyes of officials make it safe for consumption. Most of these guidelines might seem excessive, arbitrary and restrictive to the drug makers or even the people wanting the drugs. But drugs that don't pass the process are deemed unsafe.

• Can a drug that's not FDA approved be beneficial? Sure, the process isn't perfect.
• Can drugs that are approved be dangerous in the end? Sure, some effects might only be visible in certain populations or circumstances not covered by the trials or tests in place.
• Statistically speaking are unapproved drugs unsafe? Most likely as they haven't been tested in any capacity. Even if this were not the case, the officials will clearly push their agenda and be adamant about the dangers posed by unapproved drugs.

Same thing with psykers, just substitute drugs with psykers and FDA with Inquisition! The sanctioning process doesn't change the individual. They either had it in them or they didn't. Sure, training and practice can help someone improve their odds, but there are inborn limits that can't be overcome. Personality traits and deficiencies that will just mark some for failure.

So, how do they figure this out? They need to push the psyker to his limits. They need to push and press and attempt to break him. It's no different than SEAL boot camp. You can't know going in who's going to make the cut, you have to put the men through hell then see who makes it out alive. I suspect a great part of this involves having the psykers exposed to the warp during travel, hence why a planet bound alternative sucks. In the end, that's what causes sanctioned psykers to come out troubled, they had to be tested. They had to push them to the limit and see if they were close to breaking.

So mechanically speaking, a sanctioned psyker and an unsanctioned psyker are no different. They either had it in them (Fate, Willpower, luck) or they didn't. The sanctioned psyker has just met some arbitrary set of guidelines that make those around him feel safer about his continued existence. They're both still a danger to themselves and others.