Quick question.
If I have no characters and my opponent has some, I then play Marched to the Wall, does it still trigger?
I can never remember the rules when both players have to meet the conditions or just one.
Cheers,
Mooch
Marched to the Wall
Mooch68 said:
I can never remember the rules when both players have to meet the conditions or just one.
in order
But if the effect has already initiated, then each player has to do as much as he can.
So, since the plot text is passive and initiates because the plot is revealed, everyone who can has to discard a character.
If instead Marched to the Wall was an event or some other triggered ability that said "Any Phase: Each player must choose and discard one of his characters," then choosing the targets would be a condition on the initiation of the effect and every player would have to have a character to choose before the effect could be triggered.
On the other hand, if it said "Any Phase: Each player must choose and discard one of his characters, if able," the "if able" part would allow for the effect to be initiated, even if there were players without characters to choose.
OK, I think I get it, but just to make certain.
ktom said:
But if the effect has already initiated, then each player has to do as much as he can.
So, since the plot text is passive and initiates because the plot is revealed, everyone who can has to discard a character.
For this plot in particular, even though I have 0 characters, this plot would still trigger since the condition to be met is "When Revealed".
ktom said:
If instead Marched to the Wall was an event or some other triggered ability that said "Any Phase: Each player must choose and discard one of his characters," then choosing the targets would be a condition on the initiation of the effect and every player would have to have a character to choose before the effect could be triggered.
To use your example above (if the card was an event), but without the word "must". If instead it said - "Any Phase: Each player chooses and discards 1 of his or her characters from play". Would both players choosing targets still be a pre-conditon that has to be met before the discard part happened?
And furthermore if the text said "Any Phase: After ThisCard'sTitle comes out of shadow, each player chooses and discards 1 of his or her characters from play". Would then the pre-condition be coming out of shadows and then it is just "do as much as they can" for the rest of the phrase?
Mooch68 said:
For this plot in particular, even though I have 0 characters, this plot would still trigger since the condition to be met is "When Revealed".
Mooch68
said:
To use your example above (if the card was an event), but without the word "must". If instead it said - "Any Phase: Each player chooses and discards 1 of his or her characters from play". Would both players choosing targets still be a pre-conditon that has to be met before the discard part happened?
Yes. The presence or absence of the word "must" doesn't change the general rule that before a
player
can initiate an effect, all required targets must be chosen.
Mooch68 said:
And furthermore if the text said "Any Phase: After
ThisCard'sTitle
comes out of shadow, each player chooses and discards 1 of his or her characters from play". Would then the pre-condition be coming out of shadows and then it is just "do as much as they can" for the rest of the phrase?
player
The only times you ever get into a "do as much as you can" situation that involves choosing targets is either a) when it is a passive effect, or b) when it is a triggered effect that includes a qualifier such as "if able."
so,if I have TLS standing,I can't play For R'hllor,right?
For R'hllor
Response: After an opponent draws 1 or more cards through a card effect,kneel 3 influence or kneel 1
character to have each player choose and discard cards from his or her hand until only 4 cards remain in each player's hand.
so,if I have TLS standing,I can't play For R'hllor,right?
For R'hllor
Response: After an opponent draws 1 or more cards through a card effect,kneel 3 influence or kneel 1
Correct. In fact, if the resolution of this event does not end with each player having 4 cards in their hand, then it cannot be played. E.g: A player having 3 cards in their hand keeps this event from being possible to trigger.
I'd send that one to FFG if I were you.
With each player "choosing" and discarding down to 4, the effect can be read where the discarded cards are not so much treated as "targets" as they are just not discarded at random. So while Bomb is correct based on the strict interpretation of the word "choose" that is applied in this game, it wouldn't surprise me if this card doesn't mean what FFG thinks it means.