Yepesnopes said:

I'd imagine (based on the Beta) that 6 is the cap for all characters, regardless of species.

But also consdier that while a Human with a Brawn of 6 might be on par with a Wookiee with a Brawn of 6, the Wookiee has a running headstart in terms of Brawn due to starting with a higher default score (3 opposed to the 2 that most other species have). That means it took the Human either more of their starting XP to be on par with a Wookiee, or they've devoted three or four Dedication talents (which are pricey to buy and to reach in most talent trees) where the Wookiee doesn't have to spend as much to be that strong.

Also, consider species' special abilities as well. Wookiees get a bonus to damage when they've suffered Wounds, with a bigger bonus if they're suffering from a Critical Hit as well. That's something a Human's never going to get, so when it comes to melee damage, the Wookiee has the edge. Also, Wookiees have a much higher starting Wound Threshold, so regardless of matching Brawn scores, the Wookiee is going to be able to absort more damage before dropping than most species.

Outside of the Beta, we'll have to wait and see what the actual book has when it hits shelves in a couple months.

Yepesnopes said:

The Rancor only has a 6 brawn, so it seems to be a scaled by other abilities… its' brawn 6 vs claw damage 20 is, well, way up there. (It's in the Beginner Box Rulebook.) The Krait Dragon young is 5 Brawn… All kinds of ugly but only rolling 5-6 dice.

None of the PC species listed can get past a 5 in CGen…
Droid: 1 for free… so 20+30+40+50=140p for a 5, but a 6 takes it to 200p… 25p over the base 175p. With a very liberal interpretation, doable for a 2p game.
Others with 2's: 2 for free so 30+40+50=120 - beyond the reach of 90p races (who can hit 115 max) but barely in reach of 100 and 110 point races.
In their 3's: 3 for free, +40+50=90, but 6 would be 150… again, beyond the reach of PC's starting.

In the relative to races of Star Wars… mmm… my point of view is that alien races are only for background, and flavor, but a bit more, really.

Yes, there will be one or maybe two important alien PCs, but no more. So, since i see alien like NPCs, the current number of races is enough. But it would be nice to see new races, for more flavor, in next expansions.

But remember that in the movies, almost all the important characters are human. The Star Wars galaxy is a human galaxy, coloured with thousands of alien races…

arkiva said:

Humans outnumber the others because they are the cheapest to do SFX with. Just a basic makeup for the camera and a costume and you're done. Keeps the filming budget down.

arkiva said:

Well, as said above, the main concern with the movies was budgetary constraints. It's the same reason why the Star Trek TV series is infamous for it's "rubber-forehead alien."

As for number of aliens… there are always going to be those players that like playing oddball species that most folks wouldn't give a second glance at. Now I'm not saying FFG has to cover every possible species in the corebook, but having additional species options, be it via web enhancements or future supplements isn't a bad thing.

aramis said:

This basically means a human with some xps can beat a Rancor in an opposed strength check…. That in my opinion is a wrong approach from the designers, but ok, this is a RPG and house rules have and will always exist.

I am not really agree with your point of view. The first race in SW isn´t Human only by the cause of it is easier for FX… Really not, because C3PO, or Chewbacca could have been the protagonists of SW… And Lucas is the pioner of good FX in Alien Races. (What you say is maybe correct for Star Trek series) Mmmm… The thing is relative to the FEEDBACK of the people seing the films. SW is a History of rebels, princess and villains LIKE US in a galaxy at War, where alien races are the background and the flavor. In all the two trilogies, we have not more than three important alien SECONDARY protagonists. (Yoda, Chewbacca… and maybe Grievous).

Of course this is ONLY MY point of view. But i want to fix in my games the feeling of the movies, and my characters will be almost all human.

I have, in fact a genesis which explain this: WHY are there more human beings than people of the other races in SW galaxy? Well, this is my secret.
So, enfin, Alien Races are wellcome for important NPCs… but in my group, no more than one will be an alien.

Beyond of this, we have the concept of "race" of the SWTOR video-game (Horrible game), in which races are, really, cultures… (Mirialan, Miraluka…)


Sorry for my english… I am from Spain (Europe).

arkiva said:

Hope your group appreciates that. Most people playing Star Wars like variety and most of the time at least half if not more are usually playing aliens. Star Wars is about a galaxy far, far away full of alien races. One of the reasons we see so many humans in the original trilogy, besides the FX issue which was a reality back in the 70s, is because for the last 20 yrs leading up to events in A New Hope a human-centric dictatorship has been establishing its hold. Once FX caught up we saw many more aliens in the prequel trilogy. The pod race and the senate were two examples that were specifically there to showcase the aliens of the galaxy.

By all means, in your game deny the use of alien races to your players if that is what you want. It sounds like you have a particular vision of how the Star Wars galaxy is. I just hope your players all agree to that vision as more than one may want to explore playing alien races.

mouthymerc said:

Is it not then the fact that all races are so similar a turn down?

Are this little differences enough to catch the flavour of the alien races? or there is the risk that playing a wookie may end up beign like playing with a hairy human?

Cheers,

Yepes

It's called a role-playing game. Races are more than the sum of their mechanics. People play diffetent alien races because they see something in it that appeals to them. For some that is the mechanics, but others do it for the characterization of that race. Some people want to play a 8 foot wookie that can rip the arms of a droid if it loses at chess.

Yepesnopes said:

Actually that just means that the human and the Rancor don't roll any more dice than the other (keeping the dice pool small). There are probably other bonuses and Talents that give the Rancor an advantage over the human, such as modifiers for size. Unfortunately, I don't have the Beta with me and the full book hasn't been released yet.

P.S. This is how most systems handle bigger or smaller creatures. D20 SW used a Size Modifier for contests. D6 had dice caps for scale differences (2nd ed and before) or bonus dice to one side or the other (2nd Ed R&E). Savage Worlds uses size modifiers when dealing with STR and Damage from massive creatures. Same with GURPS.

mouthymerc said:

Cannot a human do the same?

I agree with you about the role play and the incarnation of the character; but precisely, the example you give, within the rules of EotE a human (or any other specie) can do it too. It is not a "wookie only" thing. Since mechanicaly there is no difference in strength between a human a wookie, why wouldn't a human be able to tear the droid apart? and if he can, then again, which are the differences between a wookie and a human?

Well, I would say wookies are taller, they have their body covered by fur and they communicate by producing annoying sounds…a yes and they are stronger than humans and can tear a droid apart (or similar). The only thing is that the last one is not anymore true within the game rules, in the sense it is not a diference anymore, since any other PC with the same brawn score should be able to do it.

It seems to me that the diferences between wookies and humans have thined. I agree with you, as you said, this is a rpg and not all aspects come reflected by game mechanics. Still, we cannot neglect that some do, like the strength of a wookie. I don't see then, why a wookie cannot have more brawn than a human, why he cannot rise his brawn above the maximum of 6? It is a bit decaf that all alien races are equal in characteristics.

Cheers,

Yepes

The wookie's greater strength is represented in the fact that they start with a higher Brawn than a human. As was pointed out by someone else. Can a human have a 6 Brawn? Yes. But all things being equal it will cost him more than the wookie. And the wookie will be able to invest in other tallents which will still give him an edge over the human. So the fact that the cap on dice is the same is not an issue. All that aside, as I said many come to the table wanting to play a wookie (for example) because they are wookies, not their mechanics.

mouthymerc said:

That is precisely my point. I am a bit afraid that the game betrays the players wishes in that regard. If a player comes to me saying "I want to play a wookie" why he wants to play a wookie? Probably is because he has seen the movies and he wants to play a big strong wookie who is also a faithful companion.

My fears are that the game mechanics won't provide enough coverage to the "strong" part for his (our) picture of how a wookie is. Said that, I haven't played yet, I am still in the process of reading the book, but, I will probably rise the limit of wookie Brawn up to 7. It will create the ilusion that wookies are stronger than other races, and I say ilusion because reaching Brawn 7 would cost at least finishing two talent trees.

My two cents,

Yepes

To be fair, I'm pretty sure they said in the Beta book that things like Rancors may have a Brawn higher than 6, I think the limit is just for players. Some race specific talents or something would be nice though.

Yepesnopes said:

Play the game then worry about this. The wookiees 'feel' like very physical characters.

-WJL

Yepesnopes said:

Why? On average wookies are stronger which is represented by a higher starting Brawn. Why can't a human who dedicates himself be as strong as a wookie?

Azrael Macool said:

Where?

I just did a quick look in the beta book and the only place I can find Rancors mentioned is in a silhoutte table (Table 6-5, p 137. They're silhouette 3). They aren't in the index, either, while Mynocks are.

So, it doesn't appear there are any references to Rancors specifically, and pg 64 states "During the course of play, no characteristic can be increased higher than 6." No notes on whether NPC/creatures can have higher characteristics, though. Also, I can't find anything that explicitly allows cybernetics to break that barrier, in the attributes chapter, gear chapter, or final week's beta notes.

-WJL

mouthymerc said:

All that aside, as I said many come to the table wanting to play a wookie (for example) because they are wookies, not their mechanics.

That is precisely my point. I am a bit afraid that the game betrays the players wishes in that regard. If a player comes to me saying "I want to play a wookie" why he wants to play a wookie? Probably is because he has seen the movies and he wants to play a big strong wookie who is also a faithful companion.

My fears are that the game mechanics won't provide enough coverage to the "strong" part for his (our) picture of how a wookie is. Said that, I haven't played yet, I am still in the process of reading the book, but, I will probably rise the limit of wookie Brawn up to 7. It will create the ilusion that wookies are stronger than other races, and I say ilusion because reaching Brawn 7 would cost at least finishing two talent trees.

My two cents,

Yepes

Humans could be as strong as wookies in all d20 editions. Why is this suddenly a problem now ?

-WJL

EDIT: Sorry, misquoted previously.

Azrael Macool said:

AH, you're correct! Good catch, and I stand corrected. Thank you.

It's easy for those bits to slip by when you're looking for them where you think they should be.

-WJL

LethalDose said:

Wise indeed. I will for sure. I have been playing warhammer 3 for a long time, and I have the impression that EotE is a good iteration of Warhammer 3.

We will see

Cheers,

Yepes