In order to counter brokenness, it helps to be aware of it. Ranting about people discussing it only serves to reduce everyone elses abilty to counter such things. Now please, if you arent going to participate in discussing broken builds, please STFU!

@Digital Redneck's Original Post: Yeah, of course. I have my players flesh out character concepts and whatnot long before pen hits paper. I also encourage them to spread out their areas of expertise (and personally, my groups have always arrived at the conclusion that it's much better to be a dilettante than a specialist, for reasons of survivability & usefulness (Sure, build world's best sniper. Today's episode is about investigating strange warp phenomena, nobody fires a gun. Would be very helpful to have an extra hand on auspexes though.))

I don't actually expect anyone to show up at the table with a Seneschal that gets 90 to Commerce at rank 1. Actually, I don't expect anyone to show up as a Seneschal at all, because the book doesn't do a very good job of making them look cool (So I'm a… space butler???) even though they definitely have the potential to be crazy cool.

I'm just bored and enjoy doing math in my spare time, and I realized I couldn't see how some of the crazy numbers people said were possible were possible.

Susan. The space butler crack was spot on. And funny. I'll be giggling over that for a while. It sounds like you run a good game for sure. I got that from your OP. I realized you were asking how to … Because you didn't usually min max. It's the rest of the wires that I crossed. Very badly. I'm sorry again.

susanbrindle said:

I personally think that Seneschals are really cool.

You can be a Bruce Wayne. You can be Batman. A financial expert by day, world's greatest detective by night. Hell, you start with a Cameleoline Cloak and a Synskin armour.
You can be an expert on Chaos, the note-taker and the educated radical; Dark Adept of the Emperor or Sorcerer of Chaos.
You can be the dark Acquisitionist, the illegal merchant, the arms dealer; you can be Nicolas Cage's Yuri Orlov - Lord of War.
You can be the adventuring archeologist, the master of archeotech and scholastic lores; Indiana Jones - In SPAAAACEEEE.
You're the Merlin to the Rogue Trader Arthur, the Creed of Tactical Genius, and yes, you are potentially the Alfred Pennyworth to Lord Bruce of House Wayne. And this is where you are reminded that it is always the butler did it and that Alfred is a master swordsman, a capable medic, a martial artist, have mastered several fields of engineering and is a combat veteran in the Special Air Service.

I love my current Rogue Trader character of the group I'm in, even if I don't get to play nearly as much as I'd want (once a week, bar screwups), but Seneschal has to be my favourite career. There's so much you can do that I just don't see the others doing. If there's one career I think is starved in Rogue Trader, it's the Missionary. They really could use more meat on their bones when it comes to ending up or acting in the expanse. The way they are presented, I think it easily ends up being Lawful Stupid in the context of Rogue Trader, which is a pity, considering that there's actually a lot to take home when it comes to Imperial Religion, and half a mission fringe cults of the Emperor that would be home at the borders of the galaxy.

susanbrindle said:

One idea I've played with is impossible to realize on Rank 1, bar lucky Acquisition rolls early in the game, but you could always be a mutated Explorator with 4-5 Manipulator Mechadendrites, for that sweet, sweet 140+ Strength.

You know, for ripping open bulkheads or whatever.

Edit: Threw it together.
Frontier World: +5 Strength, +5 Toughness
Unnatural Origin, Contaminated Environs: Brute, +10 Strength, +10 Toughness.
Tainted, Mutant: Hulking, +10 Strength, +5 Wounds.
Darkness, Dark Secret: +6 Strength.
Pride: +3 Toughness.

Assuming a regular starting statline (my group uses 19/18/15/14/11/10/7/6/3) instead of rolling, taking Strength at 19, with the basic 25 added on top, that's a starting Strength of 75. Again, assuming a statline, Toughness as 18, that would mean a starting Toughness of 56, allowing you to get 5 Mechadendrites on creation (provided you can get them, one way or another). Each Manipulator Mechadendrite gives you +20 Strength when you choose to use it.

Potential 175 Strength, right off the bat, for the purpose of pushing things, ripping things open, crushing them, or - arguably - throwing very heavy objects around (if they are big enough to be grabbed by all your mechadendrites at once).

And yes, this is a character I would actually like to play. I wouldn't even consider it "broken", but it certainly takes advantage of the system in order to realize a concept that may be considered absurd, but definitely not outside the borders of the setting.

Edit 2: Get a single Tougness Characteristic Advance, and you can have 6 Manipulator Mechadendrites. Get a single Strength Characteristics Advance, and you have a flat 200 Strength for purposes of manipulating things (it should be noted that Manipulator Mechadendrites doesn't apply to doing damage, unless you somehow work in that they are use to wield what you are doing damage with… like picking up a tank and slapping someone with it, I guess).

Let's see, what are some things that can push the game to edge cases…

That toughness / strength build can be improved with some gear!

Drugs can increase toughness and strength: Hyperexia, Leatherwort, Barrage, Corpse Obmulen, and Scab are in various books, and impact strength and toughness in a useful way. Chem Glands can be had with starting gear, as well… And several other implants help toughness or armor or resistance to physical things! Hermetic Infusion, Rite of Setesh, Bionic Heart, Cranial Armor, Subskin Armor, Synthetic Muscle Grafts, Blackbone Bracing, Pain Ward, Vitae Supplement… and there is some great tech-priest/explorator only gear from DH! Dragon Scale Armor is fantastic, if your GM can figure out how an Enhanced Potentia Coil can interact with the Explorator versions of the powers (or get you access to the shield powers?), that's great too! Integrated weapons are absolutely FANTASTIC -- no reloading, infinite ammo; be sure to get automatic weapons. Minerva-Aegis Las Carbine, Dlaku Crusade Hellgun, even the Anoxis Stingray 'flamer' is an energy weapon! Some other Lathe integrated weapons that are fantastic are the Lasblaster, the Phased Plasma Rifle, the Mass Driver… Explorators, with the right choices (max defenses and toughness and armor and such) can be combat monsters…

Ah, intelligence builds can ALSO use drugs fantastically.

Point buy: 25+20 = base 45 int

Homewold: forge world: +8 int

Birthright: scapegrace: +3 int

Lure of the Void: renegade: free-thinker +3 int or duty bound: duty to humanity: +3 int

Trials and Travails: whatever

Motivation: knowledge: knowledge is power, +3 int, 300 xp

a proud tradition: the last child, +3 int, 200 xp

Starts with 65 int. Be sure to take the cheap increases to int ASAP. Get a common Chem Gland as your first 'free' purchase on character generation. Put Dreamjuice (+10 int), Attention Spanner (+30 int for a very very short period of time, if you succeed on a willpower test), and Sandstone (+30 willpower) in the Gland.

Fgdsfg said:

Again, as I said- *I* recognize the Seneschal as being boss. I just don't think the book does a very good job of painting them as being cool.

Fgdsfg said:

Yeah. In one of my current camapigns, the Missionary character onboard is an NPC who is effectively Frank Burns. He's terrific comic relief, but not very boss.

Fgdsfg said:

That's… actually not that broken, yeah. You're limited by the size of the object you're trying to grip, it's unhelpful for combat, and being Doc Ock isn't really that farfetched for 40k. That's actually just really cool. I like it.

What do you think about this:

1. Get Glimpse from beyond (ItS)

2. Get Void-mad Prophet (Navis)

3. Go crazy, I mean about 90-99 insanity points.

4. Buy From beyond trait (available for the Glimpse) to stop getting more insane.

Enjoy all Int tests as basic untrained with substituting insanity points for characteristic and getting 1/2 of insanity as a bonus.

It gets even sweeter for skills you do possess. And you substitute insanity also for the WP test but without the 1/2 bonus, so the next step will be precision telekinesis

I don't know what I find the must fun in this thread…

1 . In a Warhammer 40k thread people talk about min, maxing…

2. Poeple talking about breaking/abusing an RPG…

I mean come on! This is the oldest discussion in the book… Both are so true and then you play/talk with people who play WH40k!!! The min/maxer/exploiter heaven…

Wincent said:

My reading comprehension is just fine. I feel that you are being manipulative and attempting to infer value on worthless artifacts of cross-line integration. You say it's stupid, but pointing it out again and again as though it has value is simply infuriating. I deal with people like this all day at work, and you remind me of them. I sometimes wonder if they are born with reading lights firmly planted up their asses to better peruse the almighty written word of law in their preferred reading environment.

Fgdsfg said:

You may be right - depends on interpretation of From beyond - well without GMs accepting whole idea it wouldn't work anyway. IMO From beyond keeps you from gaining more IP, but you still have already gotten ones plus disorders - just like, let's say hypothetical armour of invincibility would keep you immune from damage but won't heal your wounds.

Crisaron: you've showed us your opinion - ok, thanks for participating.

*Edited to remove inappropriate quoted content*

What.

What.

…

Okay, let me get this straight. You suggest that he'd be better off dead?

What. The. Actual. Hell.

Did you just suggest that he'd be better off dead, due to an argument over A ROLEPLAYING GAME?

Now, you're not the only guilty, to be honest, you've both been acting as asses. But death?

This has been reported, but I haven't seen any moderation around here yet, so I don't know what actions will be taken. Now, I have a request for both of you. To all of you, to be honest. Please just leave this thread alone. Don't write it here. If you have to blow off some steam at each other, the forum has a PM system. This is such an infected topic that nothing can be said without it blowing up in someones face.

With point buy system you can get 66 BS at the start, not counting his special ability

fortress world, call to war, dark secret, devotion. Get storm bolter and start shootin.

Sirfrog I understand and respect your view but I'm always chilled by the notion that reasonable people should curb their speech because others can't manage to follow the social contract.

Fgdsfg said:

Mainly because you're insane enough as it. Almost blinding the GreaseLord of Footfall when you first met him, goddamn.

Fgdsfg said:

You've just doomed yourself when you hit 60.

Shanix said:

Shanix said:

Fgdsfg said:

says mr europoorean

One thing that struck me about Rogue Trader is that your players very quickly become bad asses in their specialities without too much problem.

I'm the rogue trader in my group I started with Fel 40. I have added 1 advance for for a Fel of 45. I have Etiquette, Peer Nobility and A Renowned Warrant. So in formal settings with other members of the nobility I am rolling a base fel 75 without even including disposition.

That said rogue Trader is about a peer of the imperium. it is only right that if a Rogue Trader wants to negotiate with an average joe he should have all the cards. The game really gets interesting when the Rogue Trader starts trying to negotiate with other peers of the Imperium

"No no no Grand Master Dante I only want to borrow your battle barge." (-50 Charm Test).

First off, I'm rather new as a GM myself. I had 4 players who built very combat focused and yet they were really strugling through the endevers.

When they were rank 3 a friend of theirs joined and decided to fill the Rogue Trader roll. I didn't want to let her start at rank 3 however allowed her to start with 1000xp to spend instead of 500xp, also let her have 1 very rare from armoury.

To my shock instead of going combat focused she chose to put 45 into Fel.

Noble +5

Vaunted + 3

Zealot + 5

She then spent 850xp on 3 Fel advances.

This means her starting Fel was 73 using core rule book only, and would have still been 68 had I not allowed her 500 extra xp.

I chose Dark Frontier to introduce her to the game and to stress that the others had a lot of history before she arrived.

She made a 'sure challange' for the group into 'roll playing fun', even scoring a trade ship for the house.

Combat was usualy treated by them as everyone for themselves but when they realised how vunrable the Rogue Trader was in combat they all moved to protect her, one even offering himself up as fodder to prevent a Bone Warden from getting within 20m of her.

Maybe she is overpowered however the players thought it was the best adventure yet and I can now give them a wider variety of challanges, like:

"No no no Grand Master Dante I only want to borrow your battle barge." (-50 Charm Test).

I am actually amused by this thread.

After all, if I am average in real life, why the heck would I want to be average when I role play?

That being said, in many ways, DH and RT, were made to specialize being fairly restrictive in the skills and talents that each 'class' could take without wasting the xp on elite advances.