Hi kaufschtick,

I picked up a couple of the European scheme Ju88's, they're OK say 7.5/10on the old score the only let down is the ventral blister below the cockpit is all opaque plastic, no window details there and no guns, although in this scale not so much a big deal. well worth the 5 bucks plus postage a piece I paid for them.

Now I did have a new thought on how to game the Pacific air war with models for this game,1/350 scale! I was trawling through some catalogues in my local hobby shop and saw that Trumpeter makes a model of the USS Hornet in that scale and the aircraft are actually available for sale seperatly. They come 10 of the same type to a box and looking on Ebay the prices are all over the place. There are Wildcats, Avengers, Dauntless, Corsairs, Devastators, B25's, Kingfishers, Walrus (for some British ships) There are also lots of different US prewar aircraft as well. Then looking through a Hasagawa catalogue I see a model of the Akagi in 1/350 and they also sell the aircraft seperately each box contains 3 Zeros, 3 Vals and 6 Kates? Now I know we have most of these planes in quantity in 1/144 already, but I was thinking of games with a larger looking "battlefield" scenarios where you have to intercept flights of torpedo/divebombers or even the placement of model ships on the tabletop "3D targets"......... Hmmm theres a thought...... Waves of Vals flying across the table enruite to target in a robot like straight line and each player flys in a single Wildcat and has to get a higher score than the other player and survive at the end....... could also work as asolitair scenario too. The other player takes control of the Vals firing

I wasn't thinking that by reducing the scale so to to initiate the addition of more aircraft on the tabletop as I can't see mass battles working with the current rules it would bog down quickly, but more a case of making the game look more to scale when you are playing say.... an anti-shipping scenario.

Roger_Wilco said:

For what it's worth, my Minicraft Ju-88s don't have "glass" on the underside either, but they do have the guns! $5 bucks each, that's a good price. Where'd you get them, E-Bay? If I could find them on there for $5 USD, and in quanities of 3, I'd grab the camo'd Helens and desert B-25s. I just snagged a second F4U Corsair (Tri color scheme) by Badai last night. How much did I pay, well let's just say it was cheaper than the first one I got on E-Bay. This one only ran me $30.00 total, shipping included, coming from Japan air mail. I was stunned that I was able to win it too. The tri color paint schemes are rare to see on E-Bay, and I've been having to drop out of most bids due to price. I got lucky in that there just happened to be two other F4U Corsairs up for bidding at the same time. My first one cost me $40.00 with shipping included. I just built an old AHM F4U "Birdcage" Corsair, but next to the Bandai one, it pales in comparison.

PS- Grab yourself a soda, the rest of this turned out to be one helluva long post, pardon my typo's in advance.

Roger_Wilco said:

That is actually a very interesting idea, and I'll bet you that you aren't the only one pondering it. I hadn't until reading your post, but with the direction that this game is going, it seems to me to just be a logical conclussion, or destination if you will. Any game that maintains a light work load for the players in terms of rules, and is fun to play, has the potential to expand its scope to include more situations. I've considered using some scale of waterline ships as "targets" for Wings of War WWII, but in having 1/144 for the planes, it kinda limits the kinds of ships available to use, and space again becomes an issue.

But, if you reduce the scale, you then gain space, and I'm guessing from your above statements, that you also gain some more choices in terms of available model ships to choose from.

From my point of view on this matter, I am actually in favor of using two different scales for the planes and the ships. But consider this, if you have a game that has a fast and fun battle resolution system, say, like Wings of War, then you open the possibility for a battle generator or campaign like game system. I guess what I'm trying to get at here is that a game like the old Avalon Hill game Flat Top might work as a kind of Strategic overview game, where the individual battles get "gamed out" Wings of War style. Did that even make any sense? In that manner, you could conceiveably game out larger battles as a series of Wings of War games!

Whoa...that's kinda far out there, what I just typed. That would be massive! And I haven't even had a beer yet!

I'll bet you that 1/350 scale planes and 1/700 scale waterline ships would look **** good, used together in such a manner. If I were going to delve into something like that though, I would imagine a hex based system would be the way to go. I'd also want to keep it table top friendly too. In my days of youth as a kid, I actually built a fair number of 1/700 scale waterline ships, and they're about as large as I'd be willing to go as far as scale goes. If I remeber right, a carrier in 1/700 scale would come out to be about 12-14 inches in length. So in 1/350, I'm guessing that would be twice as big. My kitchen table is roughly 53 inches square. If I do ships, I'm going to want something that I could do naval combat with, like good ole General Quarters . So for me, smaller is definately better as far as ships go.

But I do like your idea! For me, Wings of War is a game that I've gotten in on at the ground floor level, and as they release more and more stuff for it (I hope, I hope), it's kinda like buying the parts to a really expensive game bit by bit. I really do enjoy the model building aspect from what I am currently doing now, and I love the current scale with Wings of War. So for me right now, I am still in the "acquire and build stage" for the 1/144 scale stuff, and I haven't even really gotten to the part concerning what to do with all of the palnes I have.

BUT ...I believe that you and I are on the same frequency as far as what you describe above. I'm working toward doing just what you outline above, only in the current Wings of War scale (well, 1/144 scale because I'm too impatient to wait the many years it will take Nexus & FFG to release what I have now in 1/144 scale). But my vision is very similair to what you describe above.

My idea is to have that "wave" of Japanese Val divebombers be a series of Vals that "scroll" across the table top as targets (or someone could maneuver them, if they really want to), reappearing again on one side of the table, if they manage to survive and exit off past the intercepting fighter(s). Once I'm finished with the planes I have (I've very nearly run out of planes readily available in 1/144 scale to purchase, at least ones that would fit the bill for the game), I would like to begin on ships. If there still exists the variety of ships there were when I was a kid, 1/1700 scale will offer a virtually unlimited choice of kits to choose from.

I was recently looking at some 1/1700 scale ships in a local Hobby store, and stuff like light cruisers were running around $30.00 USD. And at 1/700 scale, those require a fair bit of time and effort to assemble. I'm sure 1/350 would have an enormous amount of detail, and the cost and time involved would be considerably more as well.

I'll be working on finishing building what I have now in 1/144 scale for most likely the balance of the year (about 50= kits...wife and children being the priority as far as time goes ), and after that I'll be looking for "project next".

Right now, I still have in 1/144 scale to build, and these are all do em' yourself model kits:

1. 3 x He-111 (Cafe Reo)
2. 5 x Ju-87 (Edwardo)
3. 3 x Japanese Betty (Minicraft)
4. 3 x P-51 Mustang (Arii)
5. 3 x P-63 AirCobra (going to be Russian)
6. 3 x Curtiss Helldiver (Arii)
7. 3 x Hurricane MkII (Arii)
8. 3 x Fw-190D (Arii)
9. 4 x P-40N (Arii)
10. 1 x Japanese Val (Arii)
11. 1 x Japanese Kate (Arii)
12. 3 x P-40E (Battlefront; painting only on these)
13. 1 x Japanese Mavis (Trumpeter)
14. 1 x Japanese Emily (Arii)
15. 1 x PBY Catalina (Minicraft)
16. 2 x Japanese Tony (Minicraft)
17. 3 x Japanese Oscars (Mitsuwa)
18. 2 x Japanese Tojo (Minicraft)
19. 2 x Italian Machii 200 (Sweet)
20. 2 x Me-109G (Sweet)
21. 2 x Japanese Myrt (Minicraft)
22. 1 x TBF Avenger (AHM)
23. 2 x P-47D (Platz)
24. 2 x British Tempest (Minicraft)
25. 1 x Japanese Jake (Minicraft)
26. 3 x B-24 Liberator (Minicraft)

That's 60 for crying out loud! (Mumbles, "Good Lord" to self... ) And that doesn't count the 3 Minicraft B-29s I know I'm going to get. Plus maybe a few more B-25s by Minicraft, if I can find them, to do up as the gunship version.

But back to what I was saying before, while I'm putting all of this together, I'm also waiting for Nexus and FFG to get the next boxed set out to see how they do the dive bombers, specifically how they bomb stuff. So once I see that, I think I'll start to zero in on what scale to try with ships. I don't mind a "scale shift" from plane to target here as you still get a boatload (sorry, I couldn't resist the bad pun) of detail with 1/700 waterline ships. I used to like Hasagawa the best, they were the gold standard back then, and I'm sure they are still. With destroyers in 1/700 scale weighing in at about 6 inches or so, they ought to give me a decent shot at table top ship wargaming to boot.

What size/kind of maneuver cards would you be thinking about using with 1/350 scale planes?

I was thinking about using the cards as they are and just using smaller models, but playing on a 9' x 5' table top. The idea was more about visual effect than adding larger numbers of models. I still think that 1/144 is prefered for dogfights between players using two planes each, but using small scales like 1/350 for that longer larger strategic game . I know your thinking1/200 is about to be released and it will probably fill both needs and I will more than likely collect the models, but as Kaufschtick says I don't want to have to wait 2 years to play a scenario like this when I only have to build a few models tonight and on the week end I am play testing my ideas. Its all about here and now not if and when.

So heres some of my thoughts!

Say if you had a couple of players and each had a flight of 3 Vals or 3 Kates in 1/350 scale, all based of individual stands and another player gets to use something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dragon-1027-1-350-USS-Livermore-DD-429-1942-ship-model_W0QQitemZ250437561197QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4f3deb6d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50

or anything else if using cheaper and the more logical1/700 scale choice.

The ship doesn't actually move much or even at all as its movement is fairly irrelevant really, but the ship player or umpire controls the AA firing. Now you would need an new entire rule section made up for this and I would be inclined to have the ship player being able to shoot at just about anything on the tabletop with the accuracy effected at each longer range section (I 'm not talking about laying the current game range stick end to end a dozen times and pulling out a counter either, but using a tape measure and rolling dice and refering to a reference table.

The Torpedos dropped by planes will need some rules and they could either have a moving marker or could be identified by just counting so many turns to possible impact or not and rolled for on a table that decreases chance of hit the further out it is dropped how much damage it does to the operation of the ship etc.

The game is played as a competitive co-operative between the aircraft players who get victory points for damage caused and planes surviving within thier flight and the ship player gets victory points for surviving and destroying aircraft.

Another scenario option could be fending off waves of Kamakazi Zeros

or to switch sides

You could play using Devastators, Avengers or Dauntless

cgi.ebay.com/Hasegawa-Japan-Yukikaze-40-1-350-Ship-Boat-Model-Kit_W0QQitemZ120416546500QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN

or of course just about anything in 1/700 Hey throw in a whole 1/700 scale convoy of escorts and transports and slab of beer and BBQ and get all your mates over for a full on turkey shoot

Alternatively the smaller scale would be used for ground attack missions as well as "Big Show" scraps between large amounts of fighters.

Roger_Wilco said:

Now that's what I'm talking about!!!

Hmm.

1/350 scale...

They would look pretty good with the 1/144 scale planes. And you are right about the movement being next to nothing in relation to the aircraft.

Well, I also have a pair of Sweet A6M3 Zeros, so that's 62 x 1/144 scale planes I will have to get around to finishing off before moving on to this issue. But the more I think about 1/350 scale, the more I like it.

If the Series II planes for the WWII line include Vals and Dauntlesses, those two scales could be a pretty good match. I may have to try building a 1/350 scale DD just to see how it stacks up firsthand.

I have a crap load of NavWar 1/300 scale aircraft.

about 400 bucks worth of them.

They are great!

Hmm.

1/350 scale...

They would look pretty good with the 1/144 scale planes. And you are right about the movement being next to nothing in relation to the aircraft.

Well, I also have a pair of Sweet A6M3 Zeros, so that's 62 x 1/144 scale planes I will have to get around to finishing off before moving on to this issue. But the more I think about 1/350 scale, the more I like it.

If the Series II planes for the WWII line include Vals and Dauntlesses, those two scales could be a pretty good match. I may have to try building a 1/350 scale DD just to see how it stacks up firsthand.

Found nothing wrong using under scaled stuff if it meant gaming vs. game space.

I use a Zeppelin for WWI it is about 1/3 (it is about 15.5 inches long) not to scale, but is still fun to use. and because of playing space and transporting it a smaller scale zepp is a lot more convenient to use that a full scale.

The Sundance Kid said:

I'm with you on that brother!

5 children on my end, 4 still in the nest from, 7 to 16 years old!

My homestead could be mistaken for a three ring circus half the time!

I don't have the room that some of my buddies do, so space is an important issue around here!