JMCB said:

I dunno. If you draw it in your opening hand, it's worthy of contemplation if you have the right cards to go with it (Wookiee Nav, Target of Opportunity, maybe a Hit and Run out as an objective). Otherwise, yeah, it's edge battle or pitch during the draw phase bait.

I totally understand why Rebel Assault wouldn't work with Trench Run. However, it smacks of bait-and-switch to put them together in the same objective set.

"Here, look at this wonderful card that allows you to launch an assault on the Death Star dial itself. Now look at this beautiful 'Rebel Assault' card that has a pretty picture of X-wings flying in to destroy the Death Star. What was that? Oh, no, sorry: Rebel Assault doesn't actually work on the Death Star dial. It says so in the fine print. Good try, though."

Thanks for listening. You don't need to reply. I just needed to share my feelings with somebody who cares.

divinityofnumber said:

This would be the way I read it as well.

Holliday88 said:

Except that is a view point that is entirely arbitary, not supported by the rules, not present in the card test, and not corroborated by a playtesters clarification.

There is absolutely no reason to conclude that units can strike and deal thier blast damage to the objective, and other effects that are worded the exact same way do not function in the same manner.

You engage the DS Dial as if it were the objective, therefore you treat it as if it were the "engaged objective". If you do not, then nothing works on it, include damage from units striking as they deal damage to the "engaged objective". There is no distinction made on the Trench Run card either. In fact the only damage that is actually a function of the engagement, that is coming from the engagement rules and always checked for regardless of what units are involved, is the unopposed bonus which you seem to have excluded.

Even with that there is also no conflict with other part of the Trench Run card stating the DS Dial does not become an actual objective, as there are still a host of other effects that require an objective, not an "engaged objective".

Holliday88 said:

Which would simply be wrong…

ScottieATF explained it quite succinctly using the terminology of the rulebook.

Let me just add this from my other post to help you understand with an example of what arbritrary restriction your line of thinking creates (I'm not trying to be condescending, I promise):

Think of it this way. A BLAST ICON on a card simply represents a rule . The rule it represents is: if attacking, focus to strike, dealing 1 damage to the engaged objective . So what you're saying is: a blast icon on a unit means deal damage to the DS dial when Trench Run is in effect. But if they actually just printed the rules for the blast icon on the card, you wouldn't be able to deal damage to the DS dial because the word objective would appear in that text. See how that just wouldn't make sense? You created an exception where none exists.

I honestly can't state it more clearly than that. That argument is winner, winner chicken dinner.

Surge and Scottie, you guys need to realize you could be wrong as well and not try to force your opinions as the "right answer". The truth is none of us will know for sure until the FAQ comes out. Hell we could all be wrong.

Why don't we all just agree to disagree and stop arguing in circles and wait for the FAQ.

Wow. This $4!+ is bananas. I'm not sure why people are getting on Scottie's case and why DailyRich seems to think that he has explained anything that is self-evident or is clearly stated and not ambiguous. Yes, it can be deducted that the DS dial obviously takes damage, but in no way at all is it clearly stated how it takes damage. It can be assumed that at the very least that blast damage affects it, but this is also just an inference when we are literal about it. And that's all that Scottie seems to be saying to me, is that no where is it stated where we draw the line and if we take a very literal interpretation of the rules verbatim, the conclusion would be that it cannot be damaged at all which is obviously not the case. It would seem to me, and this is just my opinion, that cards and actions that are inherent to the conflict phase (because of the word engage) would work, and that cards or actions that work outside of it, don't. But that's just my interpretation of the intent, because in reality, it's totally unclear. But as someone said, it's really weird that they would include Rebel Assault in the same set with a picture if it heading toward the DS. We just need to wait for the FAQ, because if anyone here is saying that it is obvious or explained, it is not. Any interpretation is just an opinion at this point, how this thing takes damage can only be assumed.

Toqtamish said:

I stated my arguement when someone new chimed in with thiers. I am not just reposting words for no reason. If you want to call that forcing my opinion on others then so be it, I really don't agree.

FFG could errata whatever they want. The Trench Run could say "Purple sparkles" if they wanted. But that doesn't change that as currently stated the rules and playtester corroboration only support the conclusion that for the purposes of Trench Run you treat the DS Dial as the "engaged objective" while still not being an objective for the host of other cards that spefically target/specify an objective.

But really, the worst thing about Trench Run is that Red 5 can't go on it. Uhh, that is a major fail.

Toqtamish said:

I agree that I could be wrong. I'd be willing to put money on my answer, but yeah, a change in the rules or a misunderstanding on my part is possible, and I could be wrong.

Also, I applaud your plea for patience. It is duly noted, and I will oblige.

However, false equivalence is the bane of successful problem resolution. I can accept that I may be wrong about some things, but that doesn't mean I should acccept as valid obviously faulty premises that are fully disproven by not vague or complex but simple, well-established game rules. I could be mistaken about what the ruling will be regarding Trench Run. I will be the first to proclaim that I was wrong if proven so.

But a blast damage icon is clearly defined in the rulebook. There's really no room for compromise on that.

As happy as I am to generate so much discussion, it was most certainly NOT my intention to foment so much discord.

After reviewing the wording on how blast damage is applied, I believe we will be playing Trench Run as follows:

The DS Dial becomes an engageable objective. Therefore, cards, abilities, and actions that interact with an engaged objective will work on the enhanced DS dial. However it is not an objective for the purposes of targeting.

So, the Wookie Navigator, Target of Opportunity, Hit and Run, etc WILL interact with the DS dial BUT Home one and Rebel assault would not.

Or at least that's the way I see it.

JustinMcBride said:

Since I switched from Jedi to Rebel… 3 games, 3 - T3 wins… that's why.

videinfra said:

Actually had an opponent (good friend of mine, btw), DQ'ed from a tournament because he didn't read the cards closely enough and did this (had Journey to Dagobah, which is Red 5's objective, in a Rebel deck). I honestly felt horrible for pointing it out when he played Trench Run on 1st turn, immediately followed by Red 5. Having just read the thread the same day arguing the cinematics of them not being allowed together, I facepalmed and calmly pointed out that it was an illegal deck. I was looking forward to that match, too.

And then started the argument, using the same back and forth string of logic, as to whether or not you could engage the Trench Run/DS dial more than once a turn, because of that little quip at the end of its first paragraph… "…It is not an objective."

stormwolf27 said:

It was merely a joke. However, I have had multiple turn two wins with a rebel deck and those did NOT use Trench Run. Why waste the card and the resource?

Didn't I play the Trench Run on you one game and actually won using it? =P Threw you for a loop…

The card seriously needs errata or clarification. Setting aside all the other arguments, going strictly by RAW, it allows the LS to engage the Death Star dial, but makes no provision for the Dark Side to defend it.

It says you engage it like an objective. The rules for engaging an objective allow for attack and defense.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that the DS Dial can be damaged by blast icons. (I don't care either way. I'm not using the damnable thing until a proper FAQ is released.)

• How would that damage be applied? Would damage tokens be placed on the dial? How many "wounds" can it take before destroyed?
• If not damage tokens, would the dial be rolled back per damage taken? Do you have to hit a specific target number with this dial modification?

When this card came out the first time, I couldn't even get past these questions, let alone the verbose and "spirited" debate this thread has generated.

Am I completely off-track with this line of questioning? It wouldn't surprise me. This card boggles my mind.

It just takes damage tokens. When there are 10 tokens, the Dark Side player loses the game. It doesn't move the counter one way or the other.

TonganJedi said:

Really, the intent of the card is pretty simple.

Relevant Card Text: "Enhance the Death Star dial. This enhancement cannot be targeted.
You may engage the Death Star dial as though it were a dark side objective (it is not an objective). If the dial has 10 or more damage, the light side wins the game."

This means that Trench Run is an enhancement that enhances the Death Star dial, and while it's in play, the LS player can engage the dial as if it were a DS objective. If the LS player can deal 10 damage to the Death Star dial while Trench Run is in play, they win the game. Damage is always represented by placing damage tokens on the game object, there is no reason it would be any different when damaging the dial.

Just my opinion (and I didn't read further to see if anyone else feels the same way, so I apologize in advance if this is a common take on the card), but I feel the cards ability to engage the dial as an objective for the purpose of winning has to be limited and made a bit more challenging…hence why only "blaster" damage would be appropriate and not other cards. Otherwise it gives a heavy advantage to one side whereas I think the intent was to provide another win opportunity but with some limitations to add a level of strategy to the players thought process.

Don

I agree Don. When we play, we don't allow any extra fate/event (Whatever cards) to do extra damage - only blast marks from the actual character/unit/creatures.

sliebert said:

The only problem is that I have yet to see a good rules reason for playing this way as blast damage icons have the function of dealing damage to the engaged objective, just like unopposed damage and Target of Opportunity. If the DS Dial doesn't count as the engaged objective for Target of Opportunity, why does it count as the engaged objective for blast damage icons?

Because the card tells you it can be engaged like an objective. What's the point of engaging an objective if not to do blast damage to it?