Ok awhile back when FFG released the Normandy Expansion there were some complaints about how the U.S. didnt get very many new vehicles. Im curious as to what those who were complaining would like to see? Statistically speaking the Germans had very many different AFV's fighting where as the U.S. had very few different tanks. Many of these U.S. tanks had abunch of different variations but I would find that hard to be translated to the scale of this game.

So like I said, those who want to see more U.S. vehicles which ones? Now on the British end of things, I wouldnt mind seeing a Sherman Firefly mini .

Jeeps. Whats an American army without jeeps? I'd like one with a .50 mounted on the back of it.

I had thought of that but Im not too sure I would like them staring down the guns of a Kingtiger or regular Tiger or any German tank for that matter. Then again I guess it would be the U.S. equivialent to the Bren Carrier.

I think that Amtracs will be making an appearence when they release a Pacific Expansion, their amphibeous capability would come in handy. When I asked this question on BGG someone made mention of Stuart Tanks for some light ones, this would be good with an advantage against infantry etc. But not really sure they are necessary, Shermans are light enough as it is.

The M8 Greyhound was a recon vehicle and not very suitable for combat, but I think it'd be a nice addition. It'll need some special rules to make use of it's recon role, whatever that might be exactly (easy spotting of concealed squads or something). A german counterpart would be necessary though, probably SdKfz 222.

Comparing the US with the german military vehicles of WWII (german Wikipedia, sorry, haven't found a good listing in English) it's pretty obvious, as already mentioned, that there's a much wider selection on the german side FFG can pick from. There's simply not much choice, and many US tanks saw only very limited use in this conflict...

These are the U.S. vehicles I would like to see added

LEE Grant , great for dessert scenarios, particularly for the British.

Stuart, a fast recon tank with some punch, particularly against half tracks , infantry

Greyhound, nice armored car fast enough to run away from anything it can not out fight, has turret stabilization so it can shoot and scoot

Priest, mobile artillary with some anti tank ability, simular to German Wespe

Special Sherman, need rules for several varieties ( these would only need rules additions for use)

Flame thrower, nice bunker buster

Flail, good for clearing minefields on the run

Bridger, quick way to bridge a narrow deep stream, Germans wished they had a few of these at the battle of the bulge

Caliopie, Rockets mounted on a rack on top

Yes the Germans had more varieties but why should they have all the fun ???? The above mentioned vehicles had a roll to play in the ultimate defeat of the Germans.

And why not jeeps ??? A 50 cal has very good light armor penetration and a greater range than any German MG. Also it is a VERY small target and difficult to hit even when standing still.

On the German side, how about PUMAS, 250 halftracks, Wespe, 8 wheeled arm. cars ( 240, 242, 244)

Also I have a news flash, the British Bren was not an infantry transport. It was called a Bren Carrier because it mounted a Bren Gun

Some good points but the Lee/Grant would be pretty useless, it would be an afterthought to the Desert Expansion (since they didnt see much service in Western Europe). But one could put it in when they go to the Russian side of things as they used them in force on Mainland Europe for a time. Then again neither the Brits or the Russians particularly cared for them. I thought they did pretty good with the British Choices for Days of the Fox.

Might as well have a jeep like I said itd be the same as the Bren Carrier in terms of fighting and moving infantry about since it was an armored personnel carrier.

As an aside, I forgot to mention that the size of the vehicle really doesnt matter in this game. It may have mattered historically but if its in an open hex it can be shot.

And also with all the great Russian tank varients out there I would hate to see the plastic wasted on lend lease vehicles. If scenarios call for Lend Lease Vehicles there are plenty of Shermans to go around. I would rather a good handful of different Russian vehicle types .

Priests would be awesome.

Stuarts would be great, too.

In particular, these two units would add new strategic element to the game. Give the Priests rules similar to Mortars (but with a little more oomph). Stuarts are deadly against Infantry, almost useless against Panzers. Both of these would play completely different from the ubiquitous Shermans.

Jeeps... eh. They would be cool to look at, but not much different than half tracks or trucks as far as game play goes.

I would also like to see an actual Sniper figure (not neccessarily for US only), particularly if and when the Soviet expansion comes out. The card thing is kinda cool, but sort of ephemeral.

You are overlooking two uses of the jeep.

1. It can tow an antitank gun

2,.It also mounts a 50 cal MG. The 50 cal is a pretty awesome MG, capable of penetrating halftrack armor, deadly against soft vehicles, has a longer range than the other MGs in the game and has more stopping power. I give it an 8 at a range of 10. It makes a great support weapon for an infantry advance. It is not very portable by infantry, but vehicle mounted it is very portable and also very stable.

3. Under the optional rules published by players, there is a deduct for small vehicles

4. In addition to all that , the jeep with a 50 cal would consitute a threat that must be dealt with, possibly drawing fire away from other targets

A priest is more than a super mortar. It can move and fire like a tank. It fires a 75MM gun which can fire direct, or a 75 high explosive that can fire indirect like artillary ( same as a German Wespe). It also mounts a 50 cal MG.

There was some discussion about the amount of time to move and set up artillary. Well the priest and wespe are the answer

I would personally like to see the Lee/Grants.

This past year, I was fortunate to work as assistant-curator at the Iosco County Historical Museum in East Tawas, MI. I was responsible for a display honoring Major Carl Siglin, a casualty in the first US-German armor battle of WWII at Happy Valley. He had a M3 nicknamed Iron Horse, and although they were outgunned by Panzer IV's, they were able to drive them back. Siglin was killed in pursuit, stopping to pick up the wounded.

I was privileged with handling his personal artifacts and setting up his display.

So: Give me the M3 please!

OK here is my take on this.

Remember its a very early, untested and unpolished preview.

www.fileqube.com/shared/tfVPOLvhu108345

Its a PDF.

I like the idea of a Priest and Stuart, Id rather have the Stuart than the Jeep, if they make the Stuart it would be more worth it to have the Stuart with more armor, just about the same speed, and of course would be better against light vehicles than a .50 cal. I agree that the jeep would be redundant, US Halftracks already mount a .50 cal and can tow things along with transporting infantry.

Owell cant wait to see what their going to bring out next! I'll be happy with either Ost or Pacific (for some reason Ive developed a sudden interest in the Pacific Theater.

Good ideas so far guys! I

Ghengisgarber said:

The Priest fired a 105mm Howitzer (as did the Wespe).

Brummbar said:

QFT

Definitely the Jeep! I can't remember the exact quote, but a German General once stated, "The American Jeep is the reason Germany lost the war." He went on to explain that they were able to cover tremendous amounts of ground in a short amount of time, and they could carry radios which allowed the allies to scout out all the German positions and call in air or artillery on them.

M18 Hellcat

M4 w/ 76 mm gun

M3 Lee (and Grant for the Brits)

M3/5 (and Stuart for the Brits)

M24 Chaffee

M16 quad .50 HT

1/4 ton truck (AKA Jeep)

Wouldn't mind seeing the M26 Pershing, even if it only appeared in the last year of the war. THe M10 and M18, heck, tank destroyers for all factions would be extra nice.

And I wholeheartedly agree with Jeeps. They would need new rules though, since they are recon vehicles more than combat ones.

I'd also really like to see the Cromwell, although it's a British tank. It did see a lot of actioon and also fits to the theatres of war we've seen so far ( Western Europe '44/ '45 and Normandy in particular)

Ghengisgarber said:

Not so keen on the jeep as an idea... probably partly due to my image of what the game represents. I see each squad or vehicle representing a platoon, and in that scale jeeps don't really have a function (there were very few "jeep platoons", they were never really used as large scale transports, and even machine gun armed jeeps aren't really combat vehicles) and are sorta already abstracted into the abilities of units on the board already.

I would really just want fighting units (and transports, but then we already have those. A truck is a truck, and a half track is a half track. Don't really need any more of those) on the board.

Lets see... Well, maybe a Grant/Lee, for American and British(no need to create separate models... there is only the slightest difference between them) in the Desert. Long barrelled shermans (fireflys and Shermans with the 76mm gun) are not really needed (that card from the Days of the Fox can represent those), unless you really want to mix the two types together. The Cromwell... well, maybe (ok, not American, but hey) but then it is basically the same to the Sherman, except it can go faster. Not sure how much difference that would make in Tide of Iron. With the M10 being released I don't really think we need more tank destroyers for the allied side (one variety goes faster than the other, but is slower, and another has a bigger gun... that again can be covered with the long barreled card). Germans have tank destroyers now with the Normandy expansion, and I am not sure the difference between the various types is important enough to represent in Tide of Iron scale.

Recon vehicles would add an element of realism and another interesting dimension to the battlefield. What might work in TOI would be the employment of M8 armored cars, scout cars and recon jeeps in a scouting mode, as was done in real-life tactical conditions. Allowing players to place concealed markers underneath vehicles assigned to recon roles (as well as underneath squads as is already the case) would be one way to do it. Or, place a recon token under such units, keeping them from being attacked at long range as long as the unit remains in cover and doesn't move...

Since recon units were adept at locating the enemy as well as evading detection, they could be allowed to detect each other at long range.

Scout jeeps and armored cars in a static position would use terrain and camouflage to conceal themselves as they observed to their front.

In most tactical games light recon vehicles are essentially cannon fodder and of little use. In the real world they served a valuable scouting role and were more difficult to locate and engage. Because they are specialists and more difficult to replace the consequence of their loss should be higher than that of regular vehicles.

Although this is a discussion about U.S. vehicles, the same would of course apply to other armies and their light recon vehicles.