Thats just an interpretation of fluff, not somthing that is excplicitly stated in the rules. The rules just say that psychich disruption increases the Threshold of all psychic powers within the area, while the rules for the daemon weapon doesn't say anything about the daemon having to roll power rolls for the daemon weapons' special powers to work. Therefore it shouldnt have to sufer any form of test or dificulty in working properly. And also if you read the text under Weapon Attributes it mentions the following:

Let me put it this way... if there was a low-power psychic effect generated in the vicinity of your Blank - should it really change anything logic-wise whether it was created by an extremely simple power roll or just automatically?

By the way: It's not "just an interpretation of fluff" - pretty much every fluff source there is about blanks says outright they suppress or diminish any psychic effects nearby.

Well I am playing a Gunslinger in a game right now...and so far I have to say it is great. I started out with a good old auto pistol and as soon as I could went for the power of the bolt pistol. I haven't run into any problems with my PC....well other than the cocky attitude that he has. Getting a high agality has been very helpful and of course lighting reflexes is a big boost. Pretty much anything that can help your PC act first so that they can move into that half range that gives you the +10 bonus. Just get dodge as soon as you can and some gaurd flack can't hurt either.....Those are my suggestions and it is so much fun playing a cocky a$$h***

I like how two totally differn't topics are in one post, we're getting some work done here.

We're multitasking with the best of 'em.

On the subject of the daemon weapon wielding gunslinger.

I don't normally try to be a rules lawyer. But what the heck. At the start of the second paragraph under the beast within section on daemon weapons you have to succeed in a daemonic mastery test which effectively cows the entity within the weapon into obedience. If you are immune to psychic abilities, possession, and warp powers etc. then how in the name of the God Emperor can you possibly force a daemon to obey your will?

Peace Guys

Varnias Tybalt said:

Perhaps the way you play promotes rules ****** and power gaming...no system actively promotes it >_< It is designed to allow for character intricacy. YOU are choosing to **** the rules. Not every small variation is going to be explicitly stated as yes or no. You'd have to kill an entire forest for that book. That is why the "spirit of the game" is so important. If you have something not completely spelled out, you ask yourself "Is this in the spirit of the game or just ridiculous?" If you look at the combination of cannon materials and the stated rules, then a blank with a daemon weapon is just like joe-schmoe holding a normal sword. The warp and psychic items DO NOT work around these people. Yes there may be a daemon in the sword, but since you cannot use or even access him, he sits there. Unable to act OR take you over. Blanks nullify warp, period.

If you want to do that or allow that in YOUR games, fine. But don't sit here, piss on the rules, and try to claim its actually raining. Its power gaming and nothing more.

As far as I am aware, you still can not have two full automatic weapons and fire them both on such settings. Therefore I would be tempted to get a weapon with full auto capability and a heavier handcannon/bolt pistol as my two primary weapons for a gunslinger.

Its that or a pair of powerful identical handcannons, as that gives a better "look" imo, although you should probably buy recoil gloves to do that.

Black Requiem said:

No, the wyay our group plays certainly DONT promote power gaming. Yet still our characters seem to be able to shred EVERYTHING coming at them to pieces. Its come to a point were you cant even use any of the pre-made NPCs in the rulebook to give our PCs a decent and challenging fight, that sometimes we dont even bother rolling the dice to see how the battle turns out simply because the NPCs always are so ridiculuously outmatched, wether they be Dregs or Charnel Daemons. : /

And I'll piss on the rules as much as i'd, like thank you very much (its called criticism where I come from), although I seldom claim that its "raining". So just to be clear on the matter I'll admit openly that i find the rules for Dark Heresy to be lacking in several areas (one being the fact that characters can, without much specializing at all become frigging combat monsters on later levels). Sure the system is quite flexible sometimes and is certainly not useless (since we still use it albeit with a few house rules to make things a bit more interesting), but lacking nontheless. And its not just unsubstantiated whining, I have played games with better rules than Dark Heresy, thats just a fact. Now the writers of Dark Heresy can either take that as an insult, or they can simply not give a ****, or they can ask me to extrapolate and perhaps include some of tha things I'd change in the next official errata.

Now when you talk about the spirit of the game I have time and time again explained how it works with the spirit of the game. I have also read extensively about how blanks interact with the warp, but to be completely honest the metaphysics of Warhammer 40.000 is not really comperhensive. For instance, one could say that a daemon housed inside a daemon weapon has been ripped out of the warp and brought into realspace (meaning: its a REAL "thing" and not something that partially exists in reality and partially in the warp). Effectively being able to power a weapon even in the prescence of a blank.

After all, hexagramic wards of some kind seem to be used in the making of a daemon weapon (to be able to trap the damen in question). However hexagramic wards work s almost like a blank (they hinder the warps influence, and thats why they are also used on the Black Ships for example, in order to prevent the warp from penetrating its hull, should the geller field fail). So if you are to take the function of these wards literarly, daemon weapons would be impossible, since the daemon still needs to have a form of contact with the warp in order to exist, but the "cage" that the weapon provides would simply cut it off from the warp entirely.

It could just be an interpretation of course, but as I said before there are quite a few inconsistencies in the explanation of metaphysics in WH40K, so what makes one interpretation "more correct" than the other? : /

So until an errata or other form of official source comes out, blatantly explaining that it works some other way, the topic is pretty much still up for debate. And your reasoning (invoking "spirit of the game"-nonsense in order to prove a point) just seem to similar to a theological debate between a catholic and a protestans interpretations of the bible for me to accept either of us being right or wrong...

Cifer said:

Wait, then why does the Mechanicus Secutor, or whatever that combat Tech-Priest is called, allow you to retake it as a class again and again? If you get to keep all the skills/talents from previous ranks in your potential skill/talent pool, than the option of staying in that career path for multiple levels would be completely useless as it only has one chart no matter what rank you are in.

TheSaylesMan said:

Straight from the core rules:

You may buy Advances from any Rank Advancement that you currently or have previously held.

So once you have replaced one of your normal rank tables with a special one (like Mechanicus Secutor for instance), you will always have access to the skills and talents on that particular table (and when your rank increases you go back to the normal flow of the career path). The downside is that you won't normally have access to the skills and talents on the rank table you replaced with the special one. Unless the GM permits you to buy certain skills and talents from the table you replaced as Elite advances (costing 50 xp in addition to the normal cost) of course.

TheSaylesMan said:

You don't go back into the rank again and again. What the entry gives you is a list of possible alternate names for later ranks (which mechanically are normal ranks from the career path you were in before the Alternate Rank), ones more in keeping with the theme established by the Alternate Rank. The same for the Templar Calix, which also presents an assortment of alternative names for later ranks.

All the arguements over specific rules aside, I've found that tactics trump stats and equipment so heavily that any tactically sound group of PC's will shred any NPC's that aren't smarter than them with relative ease and consistency. The only sign of powergaming is when groups are brute-forcing through conflicts with ease, which should never really happen.

All the arguements over specific rules aside, I've found that tactics trump stats and equipment so heavily that any tactically sound group of PC's will shred any NPC's that aren't smarter than them with relative ease and consistency. The only sign of powergaming is when groups are brute-forcing through conflicts with ease, which should never really happen.

That mainly depends on how the GM abjudicates the tactics and what general possibilities present themselves - fighting enemies in a factory full of crates, machinery and other stuff lets you emply a few more tactics than the same fight in a featureless 30' * 30' room.

But please explain some of the tactics you're referring to.

My understanding of tactics in such cases would be 'try to bring the roof down', mega explosive into the room, airstrike etc. Of course, those are trivial (and usually excluded) methods, but a canny/thinking PC will sometimes find more efficient ways of dealing with a threat than simply fighting it. The last Cthulhu group I gamed with had discovered the highly effective method of ending cults...by burning their secret HQs mid ceremony. after stealing all their goods. A few skills checks and you can avoid that.

It's when you start introducing clever villains that things go back to square one...!

Xisor said:

I wish my players would fight a little smarter. All they seem to want to do is stand still and shoot 'till either they or the enemy is dead.

I think we've played too much D&D in the past.

Slaunyeh said:

Its a perfectly viable tactic... Provided that everyone in the group have power armour and are armed with bolters (or heavier weapons) that can blast through any form of cover the enemies would try to hide behind. >

Varnias Tybalt said:

Good point. Good point.

I'm sure it'll come as no surprise that they don't.

While it's been a bit since I read the rules in the book, and correct me if I'm wrong, just because the Daemon can't affect the Untouchable with the willpower test to 'control' him or her does not mean that the Untouchable automatically can force the weapon into submitting. So the net effect would be the willpower roll to 'control' but if the daemon won it would have no effect and the 'powers' of the sword would be denied to the wielder. Sure the Untouchable could keep on trying to master it but until he did it would just be a regular old weapon. Granted there is all sorts of fluff that would then point to possible situations of the wielder trying it repeatedly or the daemon trying to affect others through convincing them and the Untouchable just 'mutes' the psychic attempt at corrupting others around him, but keeping it to just the rules that would be the end effect, no?

Slaunyeh said:

I guess not. XD

But then again, our group tend to do the opposite when we dont have access to that kind of armour and weapons. Even though we might just play mere civilians, somehow we are able to pull out MILITARY tactics from our arses, even though not a single guardsman is there to tell us how to emply such tactics. : /

I guess thats what happens whn you play in a group full of conscripted guys ("officially", here in Sweden we have "mandatory" conscription, although far from all boys actually have to do it so its basically optional), with a general interest in the military.

The rest of the role-playing bit is never a problem, but as soon as it bottles down to combat, suddenly our PCs are acting like elite guerilla warriors that puts Catachan Jungle fighters to shame. (we employ booby-traps, covering fire from elevated positions, obscure:ing weapons like smoke grenades and such, suppressive fire, sabotage etc. etc.)

I guess there is no middle ground between "stupid fighting" and "guerilla warfare, rambo-style". Its either one or the other. XD