I have desided to look into gunslingers. They seem pretty fun but also extremley limited, Do you have any suggestions on how to play one? I mean i know that they can only use pistols, and that can seem really limitings, and the only real good side is that they can actually start with bolt pistols a few levels above everyone else. Please give me your comments and views on playing one.

Powerwise, they're definitely not below average - they're pretty much the only ones who can get all the ambidextrous talents at rank one, in addition to the lovely Mighty Shot, Deadeye Shot and Hip Shooting. Those are things you usually expect at the end of career trees...

The only disadvantage is that you'll be lacking in range, which is why it's all the more important for you to choose your battles well. Also think about getting one pistol with a scope until you get marksman to balance the short range - though most battles of role playing games are fought within 30 metres anyway.

any pistols your recommend? Like a Hell Pistol or hand cannons w/t recoil gloves?

Most likely it will depend on the type of character you want to play. Gunslingers, being from Gunmetal City, would probably prefer the familiar solid kick of the solid projectiles. Also, depending on what parts of the hive he/she is hailing from will also probably give you some ideas. Cheaper more abundant pistols for the infernis gangers, and more expensive "classy" pistols the further up in society you go. With hecutors and bolt pistols being at the top end.

That's my two thrones anyway

hmm a thought if you start as a gunslinger can you remain in the gunslinger rank after the first 500xp or retake it?

I have made a Metallican Gunslinger who I am to play in the future. He is HEAVILY inspired from Dante from the Devil May Cry-franchise (although he is an Untouchable instead of a half-demon, as a half-demon would have a pretty limited career within the Inquisition XD). I found to my pleasant surprise that although Gunslingers have penalties involving basic weapons they are unhindered when it comes to meleeweapons. Therefore i can gleefully switch between pistols and swords in combat (just like Dante!), and even use Daemon swords unhindered (due to the PC being an Untouchable, the daemon within the weapon cant do squat against its blank wielder). My goal is to make him the meanest, cockiest and most stylish daemonhunter the Ordo Malleus has ever seen! XD

But then again, when i create characters i dont think much about the tactical benefits or downsides. Im more interested in the fluff.

hmm a thought if you start as a gunslinger can you remain in the gunslinger rank after the first 500xp or retake it?

You can't and you don't need to. You always keep all advance tables of previous ranks - would be a little silly if you were unable to take some skill training and thus can't get the +20 version later on just because your interests ran in a different direction at that time, wouldn't it?

and even use Daemon swords unhindered (due to the PC being an Untouchable, the daemon within the weapon cant do squat against its blank wielder).

That depends on the GM's take on the Pariah trait - with a bit of bad luck, the daemon within the weapon can't do squat, period. After all, Blanks also influence the connections to the warp in their vicinity.

any pistols your recommend? Like a Hell Pistol or hand cannons w/t recoil gloves?

The basic workhorse is still the autopistol. It's cheap, it doesn't raise eyebrows outside of ballrooms and it's easily disposable, especially if you have a tech-priest who can scavenge the modifications you made on it.

Bolt pistols depend on how ammo is handled - if you have to buy it yourself, get one and use it in emergencies only. Otherwise, they're your standard "I'm in the employ of the Inquisition - don't piss me off!" weapon.

Laspistols are basically anti-bolt pistols: If you get one as a gunslinger, it's because you want to have a back-up weapon when everything else is out of ammo or jammed - which is precisely the reason a hellpistol is out of the question, as they drain standard powerpacks dry in a few shots. I see Gunmetal City as mostly resenting lasweapons anyway, preferring SP or bolt weaponry.

the .54 tranter with recoil gloves if you wants to make a statement above the average when drawing a gun. and it has 1d10+5 dam and semi auto makeing it a nice hand canon

Stub Automatics with manstoppers are the way to go, otherwise take the Hecuter with manstopper rounds.

Standard Hecuter 1d10+3 I, Pen 0, S/3/6, Clip 15 Reliable (see errata)

Mighty Shot makes it 1d10+5 I, Man-stopper rounds would ad up to Pen 3

So 2 Hecuters with Man-Stopper Rounds make for cheap bolters, add Red-Dot Lasers for single shots, silencers to keep those Arbitrators of your back.


Personally if think the Gunslinger is grossly overpowered...

would an untouchable nullify the powers of the daemon weapon as well?

Cifer said:

Indeed it does, it increases a daemons warp instability. Howver the daemon is bound within the weapon and cannot escape to the warp. Sure the daemon within will experience extreme anguish when the weapon is wielded by an untouchable, but its prescene (and therefore powers) shoul remain in the material realm as long as the weapon does.

Ruleswise, an Untouchable shouldnt have any problem at all with using a daemon weapon (although the daemon might be a little extra grumpy, it cant really do anything about it) and if a GM would say otherwise, then its a house rule and not something that has been written (unless a future errata changes that). Besides, what are untouchables for if not for radical Inquisitors to exploit in ways like this? >

neat >:-)

and good to know.

Cifer said:

Wait, I thought only Basic weapons could have a scope attatchment. Did I miss a rule?

Also, as far as everyone's thoughts on Gunslingers go... what do you guys thing about a Gunslinger only going with single pistol style, instead of pistols akimbo? I was thinking of trying to do something different than the typical stereotype (especially since the Assassin in the group, though not a Gunslinger, is looking to do twin pistols), but I'm wondering if this ends up nerfing the rank. Opinions?

Bigger question. I'm very interested in how to do so.

How does one who is untouchable master a daemon weapon? Or even create one for that matter? It's my understanding that they can't exert influence on a warp entity and vice versa.

While an untouchable could "use" a daemon weapon it might not work well for him. Most of the powers wouldn't work. Plus the thing would constantly be trying to find a new wielder. Lastly he'd likely damage the magic keeping the daemon in the weapon.... All and as a GM I think it's a wonder idea, and I hope my PCs try it.....

As far as the gunslinger goes he's powerful early, but not being able to use anything other than pistols is limiting as heavier weapons become availble. They are in real trouble at longer ranges, and in melee. Also the sniper rules in the 2.0 errata are really nice.

Indeed it does, it increases a daemons warp instability. Howver the daemon is bound within the weapon and cannot escape to the warp. Sure the daemon within will experience extreme anguish when the weapon is wielded by an untouchable, but its prescene (and therefore powers) shoul remain in the material realm as long as the weapon does.

Ruleswise, an Untouchable shouldnt have any problem at all with using a daemon weapon (although the daemon might be a little extra grumpy, it cant really do anything about it) and if a GM would say otherwise, then its a house rule and not something that has been written (unless a future errata changes that). Besides, what are untouchables for if not for radical Inquisitors to exploit in ways like this? >

Obviously any interaction (or lack thereof) between the Daemon weapon and the Blank would be GM fiat - but the gist of the Psychic Disruption rule seems to be that psychic effects in the vicinity of the Null weaken or cease to exist altogether, which is precisely what would affect a Daemon weapon.

Also, as far as everyone's thoughts on Gunslingers go... what do you guys thing about a Gunslinger only going with single pistol style, instead of pistols akimbo? I was thinking of trying to do something different than the typical stereotype (especially since the Assassin in the group, though not a Gunslinger, is looking to do twin pistols), but I'm wondering if this ends up nerfing the rank. Opinions?

The rank has more than enough advancements that don't have anything to do with dual wielding, though the possibility to dual wield is obviously one of the major strengths of any pistol weapon.

what book did gunslinger come out in? I only knew of the battle sisters coming out in the inquisitor handbook... but I haven't gotten all the books yet. I'm just starting and havent even got a group together yet.

Marysville WA anyone?

Gunslingers is an alternate rank for assasins and scum hiver if from the gunmetal city and is in the IH.

i would always go for dual wield since dual shot is pretty **** efficient against any demon or xenos not based on Armour but a high toughness bonus

Since the eratta made the dual shot 2 shots that deal combined damage after armour
exsample dual shot with 2 pistols causing each 1d10 +3 damage with pen 0 against a target with 2 armour and a toughness bonus of 8
gun 1 does 8 damage and gun 2 does 12 damage
the armor reduces gun 1 damge to 6 and gun 2 damage to 10
but since it dual shot the damage that got through the armour now combine
giving a combined damage of 16
and the targets toughness reduces the combined damage by 8
this makes the target take 8 wounds of damage.

Cifer said:

Thats just an interpretation of fluff, not somthing that is excplicitly stated in the rules. The rules just say that psychich disruption increases the Threshold of all psychic powers within the area, while the rules for the daemon weapon doesn't say anything about the daemon having to roll power rolls for the daemon weapons' special powers to work. Therefore it shouldnt have to sufer any form of test or dificulty in working properly. And also if you read the text under Weapon Attributes it mentions the following:

Daemon weapons may display an almost limitless variety of different powers and attributes, wich the beast within can grant grudginly to its wielder, or by simple side-effect of its prescence.

Which means that the powers manifested by the weapon could also be freak happenings that occurs simply beause the daemon is in the vicinity (and not because the daemon is actively "helping" the wielder in any way what so ever). Quite simply, the daemon could be just a "living battery" of sorts. Sure a living battery that would really like to flee back to the immaterium (especially if wielded by a blank), but it can't, because it has been trapped in th weapon by hexagramic wards and such.

But of course its up for any given GM to decide. And while I am a GM from time to time (we have a rotating schedule in our group, I would definetly allow it. Partly because the rules doesnt excplicitly state that an untouchable should have problems with using a daemon weapon (and as you might realize, I have read the relevant rules thouroughly). Partly because I find it to be EXACTLY something that a radical Ordo Malleus Inquisitor would do:

"hmm, this heretic dropped a weapon. Sweet Emperor, its possessed by a powerful daemon! I should destroy it, least some idiot tries to wield it... Although it is REALLY powerful. Would almost be a shame to just throw it away... Wait a minute! My acolyte Jurgen is a blank! He shouldnt suffer any perils in holding this thing! Haha! What a delicious irony , slaving the warp spawned abomination to the weapon and then directing its destructive influence back on the forces it belongs to, and all the while it is suffering extreme "pain" in being close to my blank acolyte. It couldnt be any more righteous!" *insert evil grin here*

Besides. Daemon weapons are customizable (meaning it doesn't have to be Drach'Nyens sister sword of equal power, being able to rend reality apart and all that. It could be a less powerful variant) So I don't really see it as unfair that one Acolyte can wield a daemon weapon. There are power swords and force weapons that can dish out an equal amount of horrific damage if wielded by the right PC with the right set of talents (a particular Assassin in our gaming group comes to mind. The cheesy bastard...).

But i realized just now that we have run terribly off topic. Perhaps a kind moderator could move these replies to its own thread, for further discussion?

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

The mastery as I hav understood it, is just the wielder resisting the boun daemons feeble attempts to take control of the wielders mind. If the wielder is a blank, the daemon would automaticaly fail. In short, the daemon within would be the wielders *****.

Creating a daemon weapon on the other hand shouldnt be possible for a blank to do. But who says the blank has to create the weapon? He could loot it from a recently felled heretic, or it could even be a wierd christmas gift from his radical Inquisitor.

I would have to say that the blank would tend to supress demonic powers, including that in a demon weapon. And certainly no blank would ever be able to make a demon weapon. I would also rule that a powerful enough blank might actually exorcise the demon weapon by severing the tie between demon and weapon and then forcing the demon from this world (would have to be a seriously powerful pariah, though).

A blank using a demon weapon is so much a combination of rules ****** and munchkinism that it is frightining.

Sure if that is your thing, and your group is all for it, have fun. But that is so far out of the intended power structure that you may as well be playing a different game.

The demon and the demon weapons power is surpressed when wielded by a blank, since the warp is surpressed and it is in the warp an is projected into our world.

can anyone post the skills a gunslinger gets and for what cost, i lost my book Q.Q

llsoth said:

"intended power structure"? Seriously, its a sourcebook, not a bible. Until an errata pops up to say otherwise you might as well interpret the rules exactly as they are. I hardly think that an Inquisitor would shy away from "munchkinism" if given the chance. They are at war with just about everything remember?

Besides, certain Clerics and Sanctioned Psykers can sometimes reach insane levels of Willpower, effectively passing any given mastery-test. If my memory is not mistanken, it is effectively impossible for a daemon to possess a Black Priest of Maccabeus (due to the Encarta Maleficarum trait). The worst that is likely to happen is that the Black Priest is forced into a catatonic state for a few minutes. In my opinion a Black Priest wielding a daemon weapon would be as much munchkinism as a blank wielding it.

And while we are on the subject of "intended power structure" I have to say that Dark Heresy as a game seems to activlely promote rules ****** and power gaming (having played with a group of characters on the last level of their career path, and being able to slaughter HUNDREDS of PLague Bearers, Bloodletters and the like). Assassins in particular become quite ridiculus on higher levels.

So you'll have to excuse me for not taking the talk about "intended power structure" and "munchkinism" very seriously, since even the rules themselves are not very serious at all.