If a ship with a generic R2 unit gets hit by an Ion weapon, do I use the ion cards; move 1 WHITE straight maneuver, or does he use the R2's ability to treat ALL 1, 2 speed maneuvers as GREEN apply on my next turn?

Or both, move 1 straight, but treat it as a green maneuver?

Pg. 20 of rule book, "breaking rules" : if one card ability forbids an effect, while another ability allows it the effect is forbidden", is not very clear, does it mean the Ion effect, or the R2's?

Jolleyone said:

no, this is the same scenario as getting hit by the crit that turns all sharp turns into red maneuvers.

As per the FAQ:

Q: If two or more game effects conflict in changing the difficulty of a maneuver, which effect takes priority?

A: An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver takes priority over an effect that decreases the difficulty. For example, if a ship equipped with R2 Astromech is dealt the Damaged Engine card, all of the ship’s turn maneuvers are treated as red maneuvers, including the 1- and 2-speed turn maneuvers.

Yep, there it is on the FAQ. Must've missed it when I glanced through.

Thanks a bunch

Considering that this same issue could come up in a game with the Falcon + Nien Numb, I'd like to really nail this shut.

I was also wondering about this before coming to this forum, and was already well aware of the entry in the F.A.Q.

With a strict interpretation of it it's still kind of a grey area, because it says that effects that INCREASE the difficulty of a manuever win vs effects that DECREASE it and the example compares the damaged engine card which is attempting to trun WHITE into RED against the droid attempting to turn WHITE into GREEN. In this case the manuever is already defined by the dial and both of these cards are attempting to modify it.

The difference with the Ion token is it defines the WHITE manuever and only the droid (or Nien Numb) is attempting to modify it. In the strictist wording, the ion token is not increasing the difficulty, its just explaing what manuever the ship is forced to take.

It could easily go the same way as the ruling in the F.A.Q. of course too, which is what makes this a tricky one (I'm a grade A rules lawyer with games usually ). I would guess this is the intended ruling if I had to choose one but stranger things have happened, and it could be interesting to have things in the game that could counter getting ioned while stressed.

If the answer in the entry in the F.A.Q. was worded a little differently, something like "The effect stating the higher difficulty of the manuever wins" or w/e there wouldn't be any doubt.

Q: If two or more game effects conflict in changing the difficulty of a maneuver, which effect takes priority?

A: An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver takes priority over an effect that decreases the difficulty. For example, if a ship equipped with R2 Astromech is dealt the Damaged Engine card, all of the ship’s turn maneuvers are treated as red maneuvers, including the 1- and 2-speed turn maneuvers.

I don't think the ion cannon increases the difficulty of a maneuver, it just assigns a 1 white straight maneuver to the ship for next turn. You aren't even using the maneuver dial on that turn, so there is no maneuver to increase. I think the R2 Astromech should be able to turn the maneuver green.

From the rulebook, under "Difficulty"

Some maneuvers are more difficult to execute than others. The color of the bearing arrow indicates each maneuver’s difficulty. Most arrows are white, which represents a standard maneuver. Some arrows are red or green, which represent that the maneuver is either difficult for the pilot to execute (red) or
extremely simple (green).

To wit, in order of difficulty: simple/green > standard/white > difficult/red

Nien Numb want you to treat all straight maneuvers to green. It's an effect.

R2 wants you to treat all 1 and 2 maneuvers to green. It's an effect.

The Ion Token rules that the owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white 1-speed Straight maneuver. It's an effect.

Also, the YT-1300 already has a green 1 straight maneuver. Not an effect, it just is.

The Ion Token's effect increases the green difficulty to white but Nien's/R2's effect would decrease the difficulty back to green.

I would say that Ion Token's effect takes priority over Nien's/R2's effect.

ArcticSnake said:

What if you hit a TIE Fighter with an Ion cannon? It doesn't have a 1 straight maneuver, how can you say it is increasing the difficulty of a maneuver it doesn't have? What if a ship had a 1 straight white maneuver on its dial? The Ion token says The owner moves the ship as if it were assigned a white 1 straight maneuver. It doesn't check the maneuver dial at all, and it's not increasing the difficulty of anything.

Carist said:

TIEs don't have R2s or Nien so that example is just muddling/confusing the discussion.

Maybe youl'd like the FAQ to be edited to add something like: "An effect that applies a more difficult maneuver takes priority over an effect that applies a less difficult maneuver" to make it more understandable? I don't see much difference between that and the current wording "An effect that increases the difficulty of a maneuver takes priority over an effect that decreases the difficulty"

My whole point is that it is not increasing the difficulty of a maneuver, it is simply assigning an entirely separate maneuver to the ship.

Something like Damaged Engine increases the difficulty of a maneuver by taking the maneuver you chose on the dial and changing it to red.

I think this would be a good question to submit to FFG since there are valid arguments on both sides. There is a similar discussion over on AFM concerning the R2 Astromech and the new Daredevil pilot ability, which (in essence) assigns a RED maneuver. There is some disagreement on whether the R2's ability turns the red to a green, and the arguments on both sides are similar to those in this thread. A definitive ruling would be welcome.

ziggy2000 said:

Done.