Gernade Luanchers for Starting Characters, perhaps if a party sold off most of their gear and pooled it, but who could use it? Guardsmen at Rank 2 and SoB somewhere before Never without an Elite Advancment.

Well, Inferno Rounds don't strike me as starting character ammo either at 18 a pop (that's 21 manstoppers or 360 regular bullets) . If I sold everything a sister can spare as a starting char(the las pistol, replace mesh cowl with flak cloak, sell the flak chest if allowed, starting cash) I could maybe get a pump-action and a full clip of inferno rounds. Emperor help with affording any reloads though.

I thought that by the time I can afford more than a few Inferno Rounds I can get both Pistol Training (Bolt) (sisters get it at rank 3) and a Bolt Pistol (250 thrones, rare).

Keep your Armor, You'll need it, sell the Las buy a Pump Action and get a Inferno or two for spechial ocasions and use just normal Shells for your daly shoot, or an Armogedon (with fire selector) with a Clip of Manstopers for spechial ocations and a couple of clips of normal rounds for a normal day at the office.

untill you hit rank 5ish you woun't have enough saved to pay for your own Bolt Shells, so if you want to take up the Bolter at Rank 3 you beter get a Paytron to pick up Ammo Costs.

the lasgun variable setting rules from only war really make lasguns somewhat useful for starting characters. maybe check that out?

I recall that in dark heresy, it doesn't matter if you don't hit with a grenade launcher, the rules for grenade misses make it possible.

Flack Cloak may cover everything just not as well in some places, don't give up your Chest Carapace, suere it's extra weight and Armor dosn't stack, but most of the time you will be taking it in the chest, those extra three points of armor will be needed to keep the Wounds & Crits down.

Drop Bear 2.0 said:

I'm not giving up the carapace chest, I'm hoping to convince the GM to let me sell the chest part of flak cloak fos some cash (maybe as a flak vest) and affix the rest of it to the carapace chest.

Here are your weapon of choice:

Sidearm - Hax-orthlack Mark IV - autopistol with full auto and 1d10+4 dmg

- for special enemies - take Hack Shotgun loaded with inferno shell, and normal shell - lots of hits on point black range and high chance of righteus fury

Main weapon - as said before - armageddon or vanaheim auto shotgun. And flamers - you can always buy exterminator cartrige for one shot flamer for your weapons.

LordBlades said:

That's like cutting out the torso of a raincoat and only wearing the limbs. Were I your GM, I'd say no. You probably wouldn't get very much money anyway. This is why it's good to procure weapons independently in the field (read: loot enemies).

How's the rest of thje party equiping them selves? do you have a close quaters spechlist an Armogedon is a Light Support Weapon for Starting Characters and a "Stoprtrooper" weapon for ranks 2-5 (late 2 through early 5) when it becomes an option for those who don't want to go Plasma or Bolter.

Only other chars I know for sure right now are a psyker and a melee assassin (still decided whether he wants to be a Moritat for a mono sword now or a regular assassin going into Ordo Sicarius Initiate for a force weapon later but he's going to be melee anyway) . Other two players are still deciding, one between tech priest, cleric and another psyker, and the other has no idea yet.

Unless you'er going for a theam Las has better basic modles (unless your in to Rock & Roll), but Projectile weapons offer better options.

I'm runing a SoB game, they went with Aramogedons and Shotguns a the long arm of choice and have bean kicking ass.

In a Guard game we where trying to get up we went for a Las theam and found we had to go with stuff like the Mk IV, Hellguns and the Long Las to get Kick Ass Killware. well except for the Tranch War Vet who went with an Armagedon.

SP is more ammo, more addons, more wastage, more to carry around

Las is more efficiency, essentially "better" ammo (can be recharged by any standard energy generator/socket, the sun and in a dire emergency, even in a fire and they have a charm to them.

Now, on the subject of Sororitas, I would go Las, it is the basic drill weapon of the Schola IIRC, plus it fits with the schola theme and basic training (the simplest,, most reliable weapon in the imperial arsenal with the easiest supply train)

Another slightly related qustion: I've heard bolter(and presumably shotgun) Acid Shells mentioned as the cheapest bolt ammuntiion. Can somebody be so kind to tell me what book they're from?

Acid shells are from Rogue Trader: Into the Storm. They are the cheapest bolt ammunition because they are "merely" Very Rare, as opposed to Extremely Rare/Near Unique/etc.

Black Crusade also includes Metal Storm frag shells, Hellfire shells, and Stalker silent shells, all of which are also Very Rare.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

Found them. Is there any formula to convert Rogue Trader items into Dark Heresy prices?

LordBlades said:

The price is "You can't afford it."

I'm guessing 20 or so thrones per shell. It doesn't seem like much at first but it adds up for a full magazine. Perhaps a little less if the standard bolts cost less too.

Also, speaking as someone with a Moritat character: Don't play a Moritat. Just don't. The Tearing thing with blades is not worth not being able to use guns, and it will be redundant as soon as you can afford a chain weapon. Arguing over what weapons you can and cannot use is an exercise in frustration. Also, against mechanical enemies like servitors or Techpriests of sufficient rank (or Emperor forbid, Necrons), you lose your one advantage, because The Bloody Edge only works against organic targets. I found this out the hard way when trying to fight a cyber-grox. Do yourself a favor and go with a regular Assassin, and keep your bloody rifle.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

Was asking because I saw acid shells listed somewhere at 8 thrones a piece.

Regarding the Moritat, I always enjoy a good rules-talk:P

The build wasn't for me, but for a player who's completely new to RPGs and wants to roll a melee Assassin. He asked me for some tips and Moritat was the first thing I came across (and it looked decent). Meanwhile he's become more interestedinto a Redemptionist, possibly going into Ordo Sicarius Initiate and getting a force weapon.

Why would a Redemptionist ever want to dabble with the psychic? Such things are heresy, and should be cleansed with fire and chain-blade. Go with Redemptionist OR psy + force weapon, but not both. If he does stay a Redemptionist, here's my advice to him: ignore the psy rating, get a power sword and a hand flamer insinstead. Otherwise, take a nice pistol to back up his force weapon, and it might be good to get a Psycannon at Ascension level.

Assumptions:
-Extended Magazine costs 10 more per magazine, increasing ammo cost. Solid Slugs is 1 for 15.
-Hellgun Capacitors (the smaller kind) cost 50 for one belt pack, for any hellgun style.
-You can silence/suppress Shotguns, regardless of what the rules say, cause that is possible, but difficult, in real life, and apparently you can suppress large caliber hunting/sniper rifles in this game, too.
-Extended Magazines can be combined with Duplus Clips, but not a Fire Selector (you choose which of the options to get more ammo on your gun).
-Only doing one full ammunition load for the example weapons, under the assumption that if you can buy one full ammunition load, you can get more ammo.
-You can't Duplus or Extended Magazine a Hellgun Capacitor.
-You don't want to put lots of things, like melee attachments, knives, or Exterminators, at the end of a sniper rifle (anything with at least 150 range and Accurate).
-Expander Rounds cost 5 for 6.
-You can upgrade an existing integrated melee weapon on a firearm to a mono variant for the mono price.
-You can put duplus clips in a Hellgun that can fire normal charge packs.
-Maglev Impeller Upgrade costs 150, and puts coils around the barrel of a weapon, making it a hybrid energy coilgun/solid penetrator weapon.
-Hellguns that can use normal charge packs get no benefit from Overcharge packs.
-The full sized backpack ammo pack is 100, and gives between 120-150 for most hellguns, and 200 for solid penetrator and boltguns.
-A Photo Sight costs 200, and can be put on top of a Telescopic Sight, but you can only benefit from one at a time.
-You can benefit from an optical sight and a red dot at the same time.
-An ammo backpack for a weapon that uses both electric (as in laser charge pack) and solid penetrating ammunition has half the total number of each that it would normally have, unless the chemical propulsion of the bullets is removed (like for a coilgun, ie, maglev impeler).
-You are not generally getting these things all at once; you are spending time and effort slowly getting the various modifications over time, and then putting them on your weapon with the appropriate skill use (tech-use, trade technomat, trade armourer).





*Up to Common, and under 100 Thrones:

Steadholder Lever Gun (60) + Silencer (10) + Bullets (.3/clip). Total: 70.3

or

Talon mk III Autopistol (70) + 30 round mag option + Silencer (10) + Bullets (1.5/clip). Total: 81.5

*Up to Average, under 150 Thrones:

Armageddon pattern Autogun (100) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Silencer (10) + Bullets (.75/clip). Total: 145.75

or:

Anoxis Pattern Stingray Rifle (100) + Melee Attachment (25) + Knife (5) + Basic Charge Pack (15/pack). Total: 145.

*Up to Average, Under 350 Thrones:

Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Solid Slugs (1/clip) + Telescopic Sight (35). Total: 336.

*Up to Scarce, Under 350 Thrones:

Death Light Sollex Lasgun (if you can make it to Magnogorsk) 250 + Telescopic Sight (35) + Melee Attachment (5) + Knife (5) + Basic Charge Pack (15/pack, 2 for 30) + Duplus Clips (10). Total: 335

or:

Minerva-Aegis Las Carbine (150) + Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) w/Mono Upgrade (40) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50) + Basic Overcharge Pack (15/pack). Total: 335.

*Up to Rare, Under 600 Thrones:

Voss Hellgun (180) + Basic charge packs (15/pack, two for 30) + Duplex Ammo Clips (10) + Melee Attachment 5 + Combat Knife 40 w/Mono Upgrade 40 + Telescopic Sight 35 + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Gunmetal Solid mk III grenade (10). Total: 600.

or:

*D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (if you can make it to the Lathes) (500) + Basic charge packs (15/pack) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot Laser (50). Total: 600.

or

Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Solid Slugs (1.2/clip, for 2.4) + Silencer (10) + Extended Magazine (10, x2 for 20) + Duplus Clips (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35). Total: 452.4.

*Up to Very Rare, Under 1000 Thrones

D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (300) + Hellgun Capacitor (50) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot laser (50)+ Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) with Mono Upgrade (40) + Auxilary Grenade Launcher (250) + Inferno Thermal Grenade (60) + Exterminator (35). Total: 905

or

Pax Factorem Rifle (750) + Expander Rounds (5 for 6, x2 for 12) + Extended Magazine (20) + Duplus Ammo Clips (10) + Silencer (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 887.

or

Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Solid Slugs (6.67 for 100) + Silencer (10) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35) + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Inferno Thermal Grenade (60) + Maglev Impeller (150). Total: 986.67.

*Up to Very Rare, Under 1500 Thrones.

*Pax Factorem Rifle (750) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Expander Rounds (166.67) + Silencer (10) + Photo Sight (200) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 1311.67

*Good Quality (600) D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (300) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot laser (50)+ Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) with Mono Upgrade (40) + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Thermal Grenade (60). Total: 1480.

*Good Quailty (600) Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Solid Slugs (6.67 for 100) + Silencer (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35) + Maglev Impeller (150) + Photo Sight (200). Total: 1476.67.

*Scourge Boltgun (650) + Bolt Shells (24, at 16 each, for 384) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Exterminator (35) + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Thermal Grenade (60) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 1464.



Note: Basically, Inferno Thermal Grenades are really really nice all purpose grenades, and getting an auxiliary grenade launcher is very good, and you generally want full auto capable weapons for the +20 to hit in Dark Heresy. I would get everyone Dlaku Crusade pattern Hellguns with lots of stuff added to them; use the Thermal grenades for things that the pen 4 isn't good enough for.

Also, consider using carbines with the Pistol Grip, like the Minerva-Aegis Las Carbine. Use that with a Synford Lockshield, and Carapace Armor. Good Carapace Armor lasts longer on a single charge than power armor (and there are addons to make it vac-sealed, too!), and the Lockshield gets +4 to armor to a lot of areas, and a carbine with a pistol grip can very easily be mounted in the firing port to get the full range, even with one hand. See if you can get a laser backpack that counts as a large scale overcharge pack (or get someone to overcharge it), to go with the Carbine!

A very good dedicated laspistol is the Voss Hellpistol. It is a laspistol that uses standard laspistol charge packs (cheap!), and gets good damage and penetration with those. Get one customized to increase the speed of reloading, and get a bunch of duplus laspistol charge packs, and a bunch of other customizations for the thing.

See if you can get a weapon that counts as balanced monosword, shock swords (with the armored hilt having a punching option and tie into the shock, and have duelist's grips and tox despensers. This lets you:

-Use the hilt to do a low damage bludgeoning, shock attack (think the officer's cutlass as a base), for nonlethal
-Use the blade for a low penetration shock attack
-Use the blade for a higher penetration mono attack (silent)
-Use the blade for a higher penetration mono attack with toxic (silent)
-Be very good at parrying, what with mono, balanced and duelist's grip. If there is one dedicated meleeist in the group, get them a Lathe version of the above (or maybe a Power Weapon version; it depends on how subtle they want to be), to resist damaging by power weaponry.

Basically, it looks to me that Boltguns aren't even remotely worth it! Ammo is just too absurdly expensive. If you want anti-armor, get a weapon with an auxiliary grenade launcher, and put a krak or plasma or inferno thermal grenade in it!

Unfortunately there is a huge drawback to hellguns and backpacks. They weight a lot. Hellgun + backpack with ammo for 150 shots weights about 20kg. Light carapace about 15, and all those upgrades are pretty heavy. If you are not guardsmen or Tech-Priest, you can reach your carrying limit very fast.

Oh and I allow my players to buy "real" hellguns like Lucis-pattern hellgun for about 700 thrones. Other weapons from RT too if they like. They are not much better than boltguns, so I don't think they are OP.