Very sorry if this is a repeat, but trying to search the 40-odd pages of descent topics is overly time consuming (hopefully it's not).

2 things about the ascension plot in rtl, specific to the card "The Harbinger Approaches":

1. When it says that the heroes may "enter your keep" once the card is in play, does this mean they can enter like normal for the final battle (they just go to the keep for the final battle whenever they want)? Or must they travel the overland map to get there, allowing you to play more comets all the while?

2. In that regard, if you have comets on temples within 3 trails of your keep, does that mean the heroes fatigue and wounds are reduced by one for each comet for the final battle? I'm inclined to think it does, but if 1. from above is true, that might mean I can have 7 comets in play before the heroes make it to my keep, effectively negating most if not all of their fatigue for the whole keep...maybe that's the whole point of plots though. It's not like my avatar has fatigue or can spend threat to get it...at least not that I can find in the rules.

This was debated somewhere, but since the Search option for this forum is so horrible its probably lost in time and space somewhere.

To the best of my knowledge, and I'm sure you will get differing opinions, is that card allows the Heroes to travel the overland map to the OL's Keep and enter it as they would a normal dungeon. Doing this does not trigger the "Final Battle" sequence that happens in the rule book when the game hits 600 CT total as far as I know.

As for the comets, I see no reason you can't do that but its been a little while since I played Ascension so I could be forgetting something.

We encountered this problem in our campaign. Yes, it seems you can just stack comets close to your keep, thus, totally lobotomizing the heroes for the final keep. This is lame. I didn't do it, and I have yet to buy anyone's argument against it - there's a difference between balance and poorly planned mechanics, in my opinion.

dementia13 said:

With all due respect, I kind of thought that was the point of the comets - to make the heroes choose between entering the keep right away (but without much time to train/buy further) or waiting to train/buy (but then with very low HP/fatigue). Is there any point to them otherwise? I guess you could weaken the heroes in regular dungeons, but that seems woefully underpowered.

It honestly never occurred to me that would be overpowered or poor sportmanship. Do you feel it's overpowered? I'm very interested because in a few game weeks I will be buying The Harbinger Approaches and I had planned on just stacking the Comets next to the keep.

Big Remy said:

I agree. You have to walk to the keep. All the card does is allow you to enter the keep like any other dungeon.

However, here's an important sentence in the RtL rulebook (page 20): " Also, while the heroes are in the Overlord’s Keep, all buildings in Tamalir are closed (i.e., unavailable for restock actions). The exception is that heroes who are killed re-appear at the Temple as usual, from where they can return normally to the dungeon via a glyph of transport ." So while the "Final Battle" effect on page 20 is not triggered, the closing of all shops is triggered simply by being in the keep, not by 600 conquest. So if they enter the keep early then they will still be doing without the town.

Agreed, forgot about that line.

SkittlesAreYum said:

I feel that it is overpowered, expecially when the heros have to travel to the OL's keep the long way, meaning that it will probably take at least 3 turns to get there (unless the heros' are already next to the keep) and allowing the overlord to have 3 comets in play. This is with the heros not spending any time preparing for the final encounter. With 3 comets the heros will be weakened even greater than from Binding the Sun from the Nightfall plot.

A good houe rule that I think should be used is that entering the keep is the same as when the game reaches the 600 conquest total, allowing the heros to balance between entering the keep with little preparation or preparing but being weaker in the final conflict. Otherwis the heros automatically are weakened even with no training/buying.

Maldon said:

IMO, if you do that you nerf the entire Ascension plot and the point of that last card. Seriously, the OL gets his but kicked enough in Gold, the Heroes tend to be over powered so why take the OL's one ability to try and level the playing field by allowing the Heroes that buy? That rule completely kills the value of that card.