So a lasgun isn't kosher, but a lasgun with attached bayonet is? The bayonet has an edge, therefore the weapon does!

I would allow crossbows for Moritat, but crossbows are rubbish anyway, excepting the Witch Hunters' stake crossbows. I prefer a composite bow, and even then I don't use it nearly as much as my sword. Mono arrows/knives are not cheap. Shuricats are right out; they're xenotech, and xenotech is heresy.

Primitive ranged weapons suck anyway. A Moritat is better off just buying a decent sword or axe and getting in close.

I know, I was kidding about the bayonet thing. The concept of an archeotech shuriken catapult does not sit well with me at all, though. Shuricats are the signature Eldar weapon. It doesn't seem right to give humans (especially Moritat) access to it under the justification of "It's archeotech and therefore okay". What's next, archeotech Gauss weapons?

Even if they do exist, they're still guns, and therefore go against Moritat dogma. So there.

I am normally a conservative Moritat.. there for I need to ask what about a Ballistic Knife?

I do see them allowable for a Moritat under the same rule as crossbow, but wanted to hear others thoughts?

It's an Edeged Weapon, it Injurs and Kills by vertue of it's edege, it's Kosha to many sub sects and Grey to others just like the X-Bow, Bow, Blade Discs and sutch.

Angel of Death said:

If you use it as a knife, it's fine, but a Moritat would take a -20 WP test to use the built-in gun.

As for spring-loaded knives… they'd probably be allowed, but they're generally rubbish, and all told you may as well just get some throwing knives instead.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

The ballistic part is a springloaded of the blade allowing them to be launched at your enemy, which is why I say I think it would be covered under the same ruling as a crossbow.

I think what u were thinking of was the Norinco .22 Pistol Combat Knife http://www.securityarms.com/firearm/3141

Yeah, I know what you're talking about, and from what I've heard, spring-loaded knives are crap. Take them if you want, but there are better options.

I'm late to this, I know.

I keep reading entries of people trying to rationalize the use of Shuriken Catapults with the Moritat and I find a contradiction.

You cannot state a "shuriken" fired from a Shuriken Catapult is close enough to a throwing knife without acknowledging that a .50 MG solid projectile round is close enough to a Kunai or Stiletto.

I just wish we could all agree that taking the Moritat background is a really lame choice. Can anyone help me understand why people keep making them?

Sorry, lack of sleep. Tired, cranky.

Powered + Tearing in close quaters combat without having to go for a suit to Tactical Drednaught Armor with Chain-Fist.

IdOfEntity said:

I took it because I wanted to play a melee assassin and the Moritat looked like something neat. It is… for the first three levels or so.

I despise the Moritat crunch-wise because their weapon limitations are vague and frustrating (especially in regards to ranged weapons), but I'm not gonna retire my Moritat. Fluff-wise, I love her, because she's a murderous religious fanatic that's slowly cracking out of her shell and learning to act like a decent human being again, and the rest of the party seems to like her. But crunch-wise, I've got a limited choice of weapons that are only useful at very close range, I lose my one advantage when against non-organic enemies, and I find that having Tearing in close combat is not worth not being able to use a gun. She was my first Moritat, and thanks to the experience I've had, she will also be my last. Next time I make an assassin, I'm packing a sniper rifle.

Boss Gitsmasha said:

As above but with the added annoyance of the Tearing in close combat and whether it applies to weapons that dont technically cause damage with their 'cutting edge' such as power weapons etc…. moritat was unfortunately thought up by Black Library before the IP was handed over to FFG and so was created within an entirely different framework and with a different mindset.

I would have liked it if FFG officially stated that all Inquisitors Handbook content was now null-and-void as pretty much all the important stuff (sororitas, psychic nulls, background packages and the plethora of weapons) are now available in more recent FFG books. That way we could put the Moritat to rest once and for all. As well as Gunmetallican slingers…

I honestly wish that FFG would make an updated supplement for Moritat and talking about different death cults (and maybe even some BG Packages). But mainly expanding on how to play them and what weapons they can use (both in the clear solid choices and grey areas), because people find them interesting honestly, but they need work.

Kasatka said:

Well, I wouldn't call Battle Sisters from BoM exactly playable (not unless you enjoy girls with bolters and power armor in the same party with guys with flak vests and stub revolvers and an advancement scheme so narrow that makes guardsman appear as a broad and well-rounded career choice). Also, what's wrong with Metallican Gunslingers?

LordBlades said:

Um, I never said that. That was Kasatka. Look a couple posts above.

As for Metallican Gunslingers, it's an alternate career rank for Assassins and Scums, beginning at level 1. It consists of:

• Dodge (Available to both default Assassins and Scum at character creation)
• Ambidextrous (Ditto)
• Blind Fighting (Available to Assassins at level 6 (Death Adept) and Scum at level 3)
• Crack Shot (Available to Assassins at level 3, but not Scum)
• Nerves of Steel (Available to Assassins at level 6 (Death Adept) and Scum at level 4)
• Rapid Reaction (Available to Assassins at level 5 and Scum at level 4)
• Rapid Reload (Available Assassins and Scum at level 3)
• Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) (Available to Assassins at level 3 and Scum at level 5
• Sleight of Hand (Available to Assassins at level 3 and Scum at level 2)
• Deadeye Shot (Available to Assassins and Scum at level 4)
• Independent Targeting (Available to Assassins at level 7 (Assassin-at-Marque) and Scum at level 8 (Charlatan))
• Lightning Reflexes (Available to Assassins at level 4 and Scum at level 8 (Gang Lord))
• Mighty Shot (Available to Assassins at level 3 and Scum at Level 6 (Fixer))
• Pistol Training (Bolt) (Available to Assassins at level 4 and Scum at level 5)
• Dual Shot (Available to Assassins at level 4 and Scum at level 8 (Charlatan))
• Gunslinger (Available to Assassins at level 7 (Assassin-at-Marque) and Scum at Level 6 (Fixer))
• Hip Shooting (Available to Assassins at level 4 and Scum at Level 6 (Fixer))
• Jaded (Available to Assassins at level 3 and Scum at Level 7 (Stubjack))

Obviously, this allows a Metallican Gunslinger access to a variety of talents suited for two-gun fighting that would otherwise not be available for quite a long time. The drawback (on paper) is that you may not acquire any new Basic or Heavy weapon training talents, you may only take Exotic weapon training for pistols, and any Basic/Heavy weapons are fired at a -10 penalty, even if you already have the training. However, I think the issue is that pistol fighting is of limited use when you could simply, say, pack a rifle.

Sorry about misquuting. I have trouble with the way this forum handles quoting, especially when I want to delete part of the quoted message.

Honestly, they are like Moritat, an early boost in exchange for specialization that can be almost crippling at times

When you compare the relative dearth of good pistols (compared to their basic counterparts), the much shorter range (best ones for SP and Las Pistols are 40m and 70m) and the penalty. By that, I mean not just the -10 to BS with Basic and Heavy, but the fluff aspect, I would hate playing that and then just breaking the fluff of a sharpshooting gunslinging duelist to just get the mechanical bonuses.

It is the Moritat over again, early boosts (Tearing) and then you get some awesome talents earlier in the middle of your career. But it isn't something you just jump into for the early boost without getting regrets later (like I have seen with Gitmasha, loves RPing the character, hates the restrictions)

Well, the way I see it, Gunslingers get a ton of good stuff early on, and the main drawback of having to stick to pistols is range. How important range is probably depends form campaign to campaign. I've seen just as many people claiming short range is crippling as people claiming that in thier games PCs virtually never fight outside shotgun range.