Can a monster with Leap use that attack when adjacent to a hero that has the grapple ability? Grapple says the adjacent enemy figures can not spend movement points. Leap says they move double their speed but it is not really spending movement. We have been playing it as no, grappled is stuck but I wondered what the general consensus was.

Remus West said:

FAQ pg 7

Q: When making a Leap attack, can a figure be pinned by an enemy with Grapple?
A: No. Leap is one of the very few ways a figure can escape a Grapple effect.

On a side note since we are talking about leaping. How about leaping over a character with Aura? will the blood ape suffer damage?

adrianpeh said:

Again, from the FAQ:

Q: When making a Leap attack, is the leaping figure subject to Guard attacks, attacks produced by abilities such as Alertness, and Aura? If the figure is damaged by any of those effects, may it apply its Berserk ability to its attack roll (assuming it has Berserk)?

A: Yes on most counts. Leaping figures are immune to Aura , but otherwise subject to all the above noted effects. Since Guard attacks and suchlike occur before the leaping creature attacks, it may apply its Berserk ability if it takes damage during its leap. Note that if the figure is slain by any of these effects, then it may not make an attack roll at all.

I'm not 100% sure that the intention was to allow leaping figures to escape grapple, as in go from grappled to leaping. It makes sense for a leaping figure to ignore aura, grapple, and the like as long as it's leaping, but escaping grapple by taking a leap seems to conflict with how grapple normally works (even soaring creatures who land into grapple can't escape). Not that I'm disagreeing with the FAQ ruling here, I'm just musing on the situation.

Yeah it does seem wierd.

Maybe the Blood Ape climbs straight up through his arm and jumps off his head? I don't know.

Hmmm. Interesting. A Blood Ape has to have movement left to use a leap attack correct?

yeah, but grapple doesn't take away your movement points, only your ability to spend them. Leap doesn't spend them (via a strict reading of the leap rules), so the FAQ ruling's implication that you can escape grapple with leap doesn't contradict the rest of the rules.

Very interesting. I always assumed that FAQ was about passing through a character with grapple, not escaping while already grappled.

I would actually love to see a Hero with the Leap ability in an expansions. Kind of the like the Dragoon characters they always had in the original Final Fantasy games.

The wording on the Leap ability is weird. It says that "the figure cannot move any further after making the attack," which would possibly make it OK that leaping doesn't actually consume your remaining movement points, except that the attack is very explicitly optional , so by RAW you can probably travel unlimited distance in a straight line by making repeated leaps as long as you don't attack--or at least make a leap and then use the same movement points to continue moving normally. Even if you could never move after a leap (regardless of whether you attack), you could still presumably spend the movement points on movement actions like opening/closing doors. That was probably not the intent.

My inclination would be to make leaping actually use up movement points, and allow people to continue moving after the leap (or even make another leap) if they've got movement points left and don't attack. That would imply that you can't use Leap if you're currently grappled, but that you could leap over/past an opponent with Grapple without that interrupting your leap.

One could also address this issue by saying that a figure that makes a leap cannot spend movement points for the rest of the turn (as if grappled or webbed) and clarifying the limit of "one leap attack per turn" to "one leap per turn". Though that maybe causes issues with the Ring of Freedom (name?) if you let a hero get Leap.

I already consider the Leap ability to be "one Leap per turn", noting that the description (the full text, not the summary) begins: "A figure with the Leap ability can make a Leap attack." There is no description of, nor (imo) allowance for, a leap that is not a Leap attack, and nowhere that I can see does the word 'leap' appear in bold without either 'ability' or 'attack' following it. As I read it, choosing not to roll the dice is still a Leap attack, just one that does no damage - i.e. the attack is not optional, only the rolling of dice is optional.

If given to the heroes, I would add that a figure could not use MP, nor perform movement actions after making a Leap attack - the later should cover issues with the ring of freedom?

HI all,

I have a question for the Journeys in the dark.

Can I move and make a aimed attack in the same turn? If yes then what is the meaning of the advance?

Thanks and regards,

Kacagany

kacagany said:

If you declare a "ready" action and make an attack in the same turn, you will not recieve any MP, so will not be able to move unless you spend some fatigue to receive MP.

If you declare an "advance" action, you receive MP equal to your speed rating, so you may move as well as attack.

For example, if you had speed 3 and spend 3 fatigue on MP, you could either "advance", (move 6 spaces and attack), or you could ready, (move 3 spaces and aimed attack).

Note that if you do want to move before doing an aimed attack, the correct order is move, then place aim, then attack, as the aim order is lost if the hero moves after placing it.

Wibble said:

Thank you. Now it is clear

Wibble said:

That is a possible interpretation. I dislike it for the following reasons:

• The ability text specifically emphasizes that the attack roll is optional. If the entire thing counts as an attack whether you roll the attack or not, and the attack never affects friendly figures, why did the author think it was important to point out that it was optional? And are you really arguing that the attack is mandatory even when the attack roll is not? Are there rules for resolving attacks that do not involve attack rolls?
• The ability text uses the word "leap" (or some form thereof) twice without appending "attack" or "ability," and uses the word "attack" twice without prefixing "leap." It is true that none of these uses is bolded, but it still means that the author isn't consistently treating them as a linked phrase.
• My interpretation accuses the writers of a minor wording problem and a substantial rules loophole; yours accuses them of a substantial wording problem and a minor rules loophole. Rules issues seem more likely to slip through the editing process to me, so I tend to consider them more likely. However, given Descent's atrocious track record at editing, it's quite possible that assumption is incorrect.

Regardless, the thing where you gain benefit from movement points without spending them really shouldn't exist even if there are additional restrictions tacked on to prevent you from re-using them. That's just begging for a game-breaking loophole.

Regarding your fix, note that opening/closing doors is a movement action available to monsters, so you'd need the extra restrictions even without the heroes getting access to the ability. Also, the entire function of the Ring of Freedom is that it allows you to spend movement points even if you would normally be prevented from doing so, so saying "you can't spend movement points" is just inviting the ring to trump you. You could say "you can't spend movement points, even if you have the Ring of Freedom," but that's getting silly, and it's just waiting for another card to come along and break the ability because it's not explicitly excepted.

Specifically saying that you cannot move or perform movement actions probably covers everything, but it arguably covers too much, because that prevents you from performing movement actions that you can normally perform even when you can't spend movement points, like picking up a potion or dropping an item. (Admittedly, "dropping an item" should probably not be on that list in the first place, since it can be done when it's not even your turn, but it is amusing to me to consider what happens if you have more items than you're allowed to carry but you're not allowed to drop items...)

Another thought: Why is the figure "limited to one Leap attack per turn" if it can't move afterwards anyway?