After 8 months has the situation been resolved yet by the player and GM? Id be interested to learn what happened.

I just created my own all female Astartes Chapter. I used hidden secrets of the Omega vault and a homebrew theory that the two Lost Primarchs were actually female.

Check it out.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/92264-daughters-of-death/#entry891248

So the player's big issue, in the end, was not wanting to play a male character?

If this is in reference to the OP, then no ->

Although there probably is a number of female players who wouldn't like the idea of being forced to play a male character. That being said, I'd expect the percentage of male players not willing to try a female character is somewhat higher, due to current cultural "values".

It's a bit sad that some players allow their range of options to be limited out of considerations regarding their real life gender, or even their skin colour (as I've heard), when it is considered perfectly normal for people to play completely different species nowadays. Humans can be strange creatures.

I think that's pretty sad. I like playing Adepta Sororitas characters in DH, I try to make them more interesting than a stereotypical Rage Nun. Of necessity this forces me to play a female character and I find it fun. A friend of mine played basically an Adepta Sororitas in Shadowrun, and he had no problem playing a convincing, non-stereotypical female.

I've also played with the same L5R party in several games. All male except for one female player. In our first game, everybody genderswapped, so we had a party of male players playing female characters, and one female player playing a male character. In our current game, every character is female...4 guys playing women, and 1 female player (inexperienced at gaming) who is also playing a woman.

TL;DR: our cultural values are stupid and if a given dude thinks his masculinity is threatened by playing a female character, I have little to say but LOL.

Also, derp, I thought the OP was the same guy who posted a link to a female astartes chapter. Wasn't paying attention very well.

Nope. Not me. I am just sitting here, eating my popcorn and waiting to see what happens. Cheers.

...That being said, I'd expect the percentage of male players not willing to try a female character is somewhat higher, due to current cultural "values".

I would think that would be the case, too, but I know many male RPGers who play female characters, and no-one bats an eyelash. So, what's the deal with the numerous threads (few recently, but this was a frequent subject a while back) claiming that female players are absolutely incapable of roleplaying male characters?

I think a hint lies in the fact that 100% of the threads pushing for female Space Marines are started by male GMs, and absolutely none by female players. I suspect that these GMs are actively pushing their female players to play 'hot babes', and are trying to drum up support for female Marines to assuage their guilt...

[...]

Although there probably is a number of female players who wouldn't like the idea of being forced to play a male character. That being said, I'd expect the percentage of male players not willing to try a female character is somewhat higher, due to current cultural "values".

[...]

In my experience (limited personal and considerable observation) it's the absolute opposite. While the vast majority of players seem to prefer genders and phenotypes identical or similar to their own, a lot of men have no trouble roleplaying as women at all, whereas it would seem to me that women roleplaying as men would be near-unthinkable.

Keeping in mind that most players are still men, there might be factors to adjust for, but it is nonetheless noteworthy. I wonder if it could have something to do with the intrinsic differences in human-gender psychology, where men might have an easier time detaching from the self in order to realize an abstract concept, whereas women seek self-actualization and self-realization in a 'fantastic' context. Might be over-interpreting, but it still came to mind.

I don't think many male writers actually write women well or realistically. I would imagine most male gamers don't really get into a "pure" female mindset - that's pretty much impossible. Ditto for the reversal of female gamers getting into a "pure" male mindset (and I use quotes around "pure" for the obvious reason that there is no such thing as a "pure male mindset" in a society of individuals who often do not conform to societal gender stereotypes, and also because gender essentialism is bull). Yes, it's definitely easier to play what you know - of course it's less in 40k, where racism, sexism, or homophobia might be viewpoints of specific worlds or factions, but are not the opinions of Imperial society as a whole. On the other hand, anti-mutantism and xenophobia ARE held to be societal beliefs and indeed important core values of most humans in-setting. So transplanting one's own experiences with sexism, homophobia/transphobia, or race relations into 40k games may not work as well, unless you choose to be from a society inside the Imperium that is internally very race-hierarchical, views homosexuality as a selfish vice that detracts from the important goal of Making Babies For The Emperor, etc.

I'm not gonna touch fgd's seeming assertion that men are better at realizing abstract concepts, because, quite frankly, that idea comes across to me as SUPER sexist. If that's not your intent, fgd, sorry...just read it that way.

I think a hint lies in the fact that 100% of the threads pushing for female Space Marines are started by male GMs, and absolutely none by female players. I suspect that these GMs are actively pushing their female players to play 'hot babes', and are trying to drum up support for female Marines to assuage their guilt...

Wow, that sounds harsh. I didn't even consider this - and though I have to admit that this could perhaps apply to some, I'd suspect that, for the most part, it's more a case of projecting one's own mindset onto another person, not even considering that they could think differently on such topics. And then there might be the edge cases where, indeed, the player herself wasn't comfortable.

We live in times that are more liberal than they used to be, but as far as video games go, men still grow up playing men, whereas female gamers are almost forced to play male characters or, well, skip on the majority of games out there. Unfortunately that industry is still very sexist , and such media obviously have an effect on people in terms of conveying a sense of normality, and thus values.

tl;dr: I think that such experiences may influence our thoughts about "gender identity" later down the road.

In my experience (limited personal and considerable observation) it's the absolute opposite. While the vast majority of players seem to prefer genders and phenotypes identical or similar to their own, a lot of men have no trouble roleplaying as women at all, whereas it would seem to me that women roleplaying as men would be near-unthinkable.

Really? Huh.

It may depend on the group, perhaps? The social environment, and how much "machismo" is present at your table? I'm aware that males playing females is a common phenomena in online games - but it seems to be shunned at pen&paper, where people actually sit across one another, as if many male players are too shy about it, or fear (perhaps even justifiably) that they might get ridiculed, or that their portrayal could annoy others. In a way, perhaps that it is less the player's own mindset, but rather social stigma and the effects of the group. The same enforcement of gender-roles that lets people do crazy dares just to "prove" their "manliness".

If your group doesn't suffer from this, then kudos - I guess your players are amongst those who stand above such primitive thinking.

and I use quotes around "pure" for the obvious reason that there is no such thing as a "pure male mindset" in a society of individuals who often do not conform to societal gender stereotypes, and also because gender essentialism is bull

Amen to that. We are who we are because of how we grew up - because of how society and our surroundings have shaped us. Biology plays a ridiculously small part in this, as proven by tons of "exceptions" to the stereotypes you mentioned.

I generally don't encourage people to play opposite gender characters, mostly because in my gaming history everyone who has done it has acted like a complete muppet. It was mostly all guys failing at playing a female character. As I think of it I don't think I've ever had a female player want to play a male character.

As for female Astartes, I wouldn't do it in my games, It's pretty clear the fluff/tropes that GW was trying to hit with the different factions and I tend to hew pretty close to that. For arguments sake though, the idea of gender mattering for anything an Astartes does should be as alien as an Ork sitting down for a spot of tea and a game of chess. It's so completely irrelevant to their basic function it doesn't matter.

Short version - My friends are idiots and do what works for your game.

For arguments sake though, the idea of gender mattering for anything an Astartes does should be as alien as an Ork sitting down for a spot of tea and a game of chess. It's so completely irrelevant to their basic function it doesn't matter.

Short version - My friends are idiots and do what works for your game.

I just had to look this up

I... I have no words.

I think my point still stands. Maybe? I don't know, now I'm questioning everything!!!

That picture made me want to love everyone more.

And kill them with kindness.

So today, I will start carving the word `Kindness` into the stocks of all of my firearms.

Ooohh noo. You don't want to go that way. Because that way you might bumb into these

"I think I popped bloodvessel in my brain yesterday, when i saw this!"

+++

By the order of Inquisition, this picture has been deemed Heretical and any unauthorised view is punishable by Argo-flagellation

You have been Warned.

May the Emperor have mercy on your Soul

/:Picture/ Redacted

/:Permission Required [Level Omega]

/:Permission granted. Thank you, Inquisitor

/: Link

+++

We built a regular starting level Black Shield marine for our player and just called her a Sister of Battle and said she could look how she wanted to and her gear and implants were all the same.

Perfectly valid and easiest solution. The nerd in me would've houseruled her something else in exchange for the implants, but your way at least works "straight out of the box" and doesn't require any additional thought.

At least everybody was on the same page in the game. Hope everyone had fun.

Ooohh noo. You don't want to go that way. Because that way you might bumb into these

"I think I popped bloodvessel in my brain yesterday, when i saw this!"

/: Link

Reminds me of this , actually.

So it's been a year. We actually didn't even start the game though untill early summer and only get togame twice a month if we are lucky.

As for the what transpired. Her and I both picked up a copy of DH. Which she read the entire book, and became even more curious about the world. She decided to play an Arbitrator, which I brought in at level 7.

When we created her character we did so one level at a time. She came up with a starting story on how she became an arbitrator (level1). I then worked a story that spanned thru each level for her. Which she used that story to pick skills for each level, based off what was transpiring in the story. The story that was weaves brought her into Jericho Reach along with other reinforcements for the Achilles Crusade. Planets were in need of Arbiters once they were brought back into the fold, so she fit right in. Castobel was the world she ended up on. It was also on that doomed planet where she rescued Inquisitor Quist from the jaws of a Tyranid Warrior, and then she aided the wounded Inquisitor in getting back to her ship. The Thankful inquisitor saw promise in the Arbitrator and brought her aboard. In turn rescuing her from a doomed world. While still holding the title arbiter she works now Inquisitor Quist of Ordo Xenos, which has now brought her into contact with the deathwatch.

It's actually worked out pretty well so far. As an Arbite she's pretty grunty. And has some extra social skills that's been helpful at times. The first mission the group went on turned really into a mini campaign. It's been been tough at times keeping her live, however it's also been fun. Our next game session this weekend should bring that mission to a close. The next one should be right up her alley and will be dealing with arms dealers, that are dealing with the tau. Inquisitor Quist will be promoting her to Proctor before she leaves out on the mission, and I plan to give her a squad of arbites to command once she makes planet fall. So she will have a horde to control personally.

I'm also planning on coming up some new squad type abilities she will be able to use as commands for her squad or arbites she can learn..

Ohh also came up with an ability for our Marine players to help cover her.

Reactive ability.

LOOK OUT SIR ERR MAM

a character may attempt to make a dodge roll to jump in front of an attack that would hit another character within 2 meters of himself. The character makes this roll after the target is hit but before damage is rolled. If the dodge roll is successful then the character heroically takes the damage and any other effects of the attack.

The group has also asked if it would be possible for her character to train with them and use her xp to unlock some squad mode abilities for herself to use along with them. Which I am still debating. I have though opened up general deathwatch advances for her.

We built a regular starting level Black Shield marine for our player and just called her a Sister of Battle and said she could look how she wanted to and her gear and implants were all the same.

We built a regular starting level Black Shield marine for our player and just called her a Sister of Battle and said she could look how she wanted to and her gear and implants were all the same.

I've read many of these sorts of threads, over time, with answers like "have her play a Battle Sister", "just be an Inquisitor", and such, which are each full of hurdles, but I like this, and I hate it; I hate it because it's so simple, and never occurred to me, before now. Good one.

The funny thing is, I'm a bit of a 40K nerd, so I know lots of the fluff, and thus I might be able to whine "female Space Marines aren't fluffy", which I often think is bit of a stupid argument, all on its own, and probably a holdover from the 70's, but so many threads I read say "new GM and players without a lot of background in 40K." While I shake my head, occasionally, at the idea of playing a 40K game without knowing a lot of the background material, this very fact should often make this a moot point. Do those players know that every Space Marine is male? Does it matter to them as much? Probably not, and a female Astartes will blend right in, whether she's a Cmdr. Shepard-like character, a Mjr. Kusanagi-ripoff, or something much more original, or an official Chapter, or a Black-Shield. Sometimes, ignorance really is bliss; good job Imperial Creed!

So it's been a year. We actually didn't even start the game though untill early summer and only get togame twice a month if we are lucky.

As for the what transpired. Her and I both picked up a copy of DH. Which she read the entire book, and became even more curious about the world. She decided to play an Arbitrator, which I brought in at level 7.

When we created her character we did so one level at a time. She came up with a starting story on how she became an arbitrator (level1). I then worked a story that spanned thru each level for her. Which she used that story to pick skills for each level, based off what was transpiring in the story. The story that was weaves brought her into Jericho Reach along with other reinforcements for the Achilles Crusade. Planets were in need of Arbiters once they were brought back into the fold, so she fit right in. Castobel was the world she ended up on. It was also on that doomed planet where she rescued Inquisitor Quist from the jaws of a Tyranid Warrior, and then she aided the wounded Inquisitor in getting back to her ship. The Thankful inquisitor saw promise in the Arbitrator and brought her aboard. In turn rescuing her from a doomed world. While still holding the title arbiter she works now Inquisitor Quist of Ordo Xenos, which has now brought her into contact with the deathwatch.

It's actually worked out pretty well so far. As an Arbite she's pretty grunty. And has some extra social skills that's been helpful at times. The first mission the group went on turned really into a mini campaign. It's been been tough at times keeping her live, however it's also been fun. Our next game session this weekend should bring that mission to a close. The next one should be right up her alley and will be dealing with arms dealers, that are dealing with the tau. Inquisitor Quist will be promoting her to Proctor before she leaves out on the mission, and I plan to give her a squad of arbites to command once she makes planet fall. So she will have a horde to control personally.

I'm also planning on coming up some new squad type abilities she will be able to use as commands for her squad or arbites she can learn..

Ohh also came up with an ability for our Marine players to help cover her.

Reactive ability.

LOOK OUT SIR ERR MAM

a character may attempt to make a dodge roll to jump in front of an attack that would hit another character within 2 meters of himself. The character makes this roll after the target is hit but before damage is rolled. If the dodge roll is successful then the character heroically takes the damage and any other effects of the attack.

The group has also asked if it would be possible for her character to train with them and use her xp to unlock some squad mode abilities for herself to use along with them. Which I am still debating. I have though opened up general deathwatch advances for her.

You are a gracious and kind God.

That is awesome, keep the updates rolling when you can. Sounds great.

If you wanted to transcribe your missions in the fan fiction thread, I would love to read them. Good stuff, keep it up.

Lol thanks. And ya i will work on doing that.

It's update time and it's been awhile!

So my group has finished its second mission, which really each mission turns into sort of a mini campaign. I get pretty in depth With my running style. For a game based on combat. I love the ROLEPLAYING aspects just as much.

So the 2nd mission started out with a message being intercepted by the deathwatch from a world that was just recently re aligning itself with the imperium. There had been an attack on an imperial basilica by dissenters who were unhappy that the imperium had started recruiting arbites from the local natives. Big back story was told that the world which is an agri world and had only rejoined with the imperium after it was insured that the native population would not be recruited for the war effort. They would however help supply the war effort with food. The imperium did not believe that a local police force as part of that deal.

What makes matters worse. Is that the hooded attackers were using imperial weaponry, and Xenos weaponry. Also during the attack the señor arbite a proctor had been killed. The message sent to crusade forces were asking for reinforcements. As they did not have the manpower to police effectively, and the señor living arbite did not have the command authority to move forward.

So with that knowledge we entered the mission with a few twists. .. They were told they were responding to this because if The Lord general of the Achilles crusade learned of the dissension he would send a force to crush the world in his paranoia. More back story released to the players.

So the team set off to the world. However the marines were given some imperial acolyte NPCs to play during the first part of the mission. Their marines would be in standby untill called upon by our arbitrator, and was informed to only call in the direst need major uprising, or if Xenos were confirmed.

The mission.

1. Land on planet and establish command of the arbitrator garrison. Which numbered only 27 strong.

2. Find out who the rebels were and put an end to the rebel force.

3. Find out who was supplying the dissenters with weapons and if Xenos were involved.

4. Bring all those responsible to justice and restore the peace.

More to come ran out of time.

For a game based on combat. I love the ROLEPLAYING aspects just as much.

I should hope so. I think it would be a boring suck-fest if not. Well done.

If she's an inquisitor she would be able to get a slightly weaker set of power armor, which would help increase her survivability in combat. You should also consider allowing her to have psychic powers as well, as that can make her more useful in combat, if she wants to be a buffing type of psyker or a combat-based one then that can be immensely helpful to your team. I'd also suggest having her stick to ranged weapons, as she would be able to get her hands on some pretty good ones and won't have to worry about having unnatural strength to boost her damage if she was in close combat more often.