I have been reading so many lists lately. And they are fun to read. I love seeing what every one else wants to do and reading what every one else thinks is good. But I find myself saying the same things over and over again in different threads. So I decided to give my run down on the Empire in General. I will not post a single "best" list, I don't think one exsists, and I agree with what many peopl have said that how you play your squadron is at least as important as how you build your squadron. This is more true than just about any Table Top Mini game I have played before. That is one of the things I love so much about this game.

Numbers: I am in the crowed that says you should take a lot of TIEs. The ability to field numbers is one of the Empire's greatests advantages. I am not saying you need to have 8 ships or even 7, but I think if you have less than 6 you could run into some problems, especially against a rebel fleet of 4, or even 3 elite, tooled up pilots

Upgrades: In general I like to think of upgrades as options that might be useful when used effectivly in the right circumstances, but there aren't any upgrades that you should just always take. I constantly remind myself that I can get another TIE for 12 points. And I ask myself are my upgrades really worth the points I spend on them. I usually don't spend more than 5 or 6 points in my whole squadron on upgrades.

Swarm Tactics: This is my favorite, becasue it makes that 12 point skill 1 TIE skill 8 or 9 in shooting. I usually put it on Darth Vader or Howelrunner, but when I have put it on both, I found that I didin't take full advantage of both swarm tactics as much as I would have liked.

Squad Leader: I love putting this on Vader, since he can give an action and still have one left. Sometimes I put it on Howelrunner, because I fly her behind the rest of my TIEs in a support role.

Marksman: COST 3 POINTS! compared to Swarm Tactics and Squad Leader's 2 points it is the most expensive elite pilot upgrade. And it doesn't do that much. I won't say that it doesn't do anything. It is better than simply the focus action, but not that much better. Not three points better. Some people love it, and I see it on people lists a lot. If I see it on your list, taking it off will be one of the first recomendations I make.

Determination: only costs 1 point. I use it mainly when I come up with a 99 point list and so it is basically free. I have never had it come into play, but since I couldn't do anything else with the one points then it was worth it. I would like to point out that I would upgrade an unnamed pilot, rookie to obsidian or obsidan to black before I took Determination. I would also like to point out that in a tournament it can be to your advantage to have 99 points and so I would not take determination.

Expert Handling: It is expensive, and for the Empire it basically let's you remove a target lock. In a situation where you know you will be fighiting the Rebellion this is probably a good thing, but in a tournament where you might only be fighting the Empire it may turn out to be worth much less. I actually think this upgrade is better for the Ships that don't already have barrel roll, but I will talk abou that if I do one of these for the Rebels

Concusion Missiles: These have been debated a ton. They help the Empire where they are weak, at range 3 and increases their attack dice from 2 to 3. But you can only use them once. I am not saying they are bad, but I haven't had much luck with them. Concussion Missiles have the hidden const of the fact that you need to be a TIE advanced to shoot them. That is probably what I like least about them. I prefer not to play the rebel game and fly forward 5 on my first turn and stay out of long range as much as I can.

Cluster Missiles: Some people love them, they talk about Mareek with marksmanship with missiles, being fed another action from Vader. But that is a lot of points to spend on shot your only get to make once. They only shoot at rance band 1 and 2. and at range 1 they don't even give you more dice than shooting normally (you do get to shoot twice) Like Concusion Missiles, I don't think they are bad, I just recomend asking yourself if you really really want them before spending a third of a TIE on a single shot. Unlike Concussion missiles picking when to shoot them is not a no-brainer. Pick your moment well. I prefer shooting them at Y-wings since basically you shoot 6 dice and they get their defenses twice. A y-wing will roll only 2 dice with two defense rolls

Coming next - Pilots

Great summary of your opinions. It's good to get an all-around feel for what/how another player thinks.

In my opinion Concussion Missiles on Vader are just too good to pass up. He can Target Lock and Focus on the same turn, which often gets him 3 hits with the missiles (in my experience; I know dice can be fickle). Giving him Squad Leader let's his TIE Advanced wingman do the same thing on the following (or preceding) turn.

But in general, I definitely feel the way you do about upgrades for the Empire: it's almost always better to take another ship if given the opportunity.

Two more detailed notes, in which I mostly agree with you:

1) Marksmanship is, to me, almost always too costly for what it does. Compared to Focus, it shifts a die result from a hit to a crit, some of the time. It also completely lacks the defensive aspects of Focus, meaning that using the Marksmanship action actually makes your defense worse than it would be if you didn't have the card…

…except on Vader. He matches every other TIE in agility, but he gets an extra action--meaning that you can spend your turns using Marksmanship and Evade, which is the best of both offensive and defensive upgrades. It also means he's slightly more dangerous to the Rebels than other TIEs, in a way that won't be obvious to many players. Whether that's worth displacing Squad Leader or Swarm Tactics is a judgment call, but to me it's clearly a better option on Vader than on any other pilot on either side.

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2) Missiles have indeed been debated a lot. My personal view is that it's only worth it if you can manage a shot with Focus (or Marksmanship), which requires either patience and careful maneuvering or taking the expensive Vader + Missiles option. They certainly can work, and in fact I think they're more likely to earn their points back than torpedoes are, but they're a good addition only with a lot of planning and practice.

Here are my oppinions of the ships and Pilots currently available to the Empire.

Darth Vader - the most expensive pilot, but he has a skill of 9 and he can take two actions. He is my favorite pilot in the game. I don't take him every game because he costs more than two academy pilots.

Mareek - he is the second most expensive pilot for the Empire and I really don't think he is worth it. It is hard to afford both Mareek and Vader and Vader only costs 2 more points than Mareek. He is good but just too expensive. He might be valuable in a 3 or 4 TIE Advanced list, but I haven't had much success with this list.

TIE Advanced in general: I ussually only field one and that is Vader. That being said, I think they are good, very comparable to an X-wing in their capabilites. But they are expensive. Even the cheapest TIE advanced costs more than the most expensive TIE. It goes against my gut to let a skill 2 pilot into the cockpit of a TIE advanced, but I prefer the cheaper Storm squadron to the Tempest Squadron. Most Rebel Pilots will go before any you undamed ships, so

Howelrunner - One of my favorites, skill 8 and his ability make him one of my top picks. I like to fly her behind a close formation of TIEs, giving them all access to her ability. Howelrunner is my answer to TIEs not having target lock or many attack dice.

Maruel Mithel & Backstabber - These are my killers, my hit men. They do my killing. I like to fly them in the front and center. Some people try to get flanks with Backstabber, but I likehim right in the middle of the furball. Inside the mess he can usually get a good back-stabbing shot.

Dark Curse - One of the most under-loved Impeial pilots. His ability to ignore target locks and focus, as well as any other re-roll special rules is awseome. He becomes surprisingly hard to kill. I had him last several turns all alone against three rebel ships

Night Beast and Winged Gundark- I must admit I haven't used either of them yet. And it's not that I think they are bad, I just have been lured away by other things I would like to take. Having not played with them you should take any advice I give with a ton of grains of salt, but I do think they are a really good price. I think that if you are planning on taking black squadron pilots, you should either upgrade to one of these guys (for only one point) or down grade to a Black squadron

Unnamed piltots. At 12 points I love the Academy Pilots. If Vader of Howelrunner has swarmtactics their only dissadvantage is midigated. I literally think of every upgrade and pilot cost in terms of how many Academy Pilots it is. Vader is more than two, a concusion missile is a third etc. I like Black squadron becasue they beat out rookie pilots. Obsidian Pilots don't beat out anything that Black squadron don't already beat out, so I don't really like them.

"Most Rebel Pilots will go before any you undamed ships, so

Howelrunner"

This is a funny typo to me, because the "undamed" ships are presumably the ones with male pilots. Which is everyone but Howlrunner.

magadizer said:

I typo to please

I really like your take on the Imperal. It is fun, and interesting, to see what others think about the ships, pilots, and upgrades.