Evacuate? In our moment of triumph?

By Vorpal Sword, in X-Wing

Posted at

CaptainRook said:

….the key thing I learned from practicing TIE Fighter formations, is that they will often trip up over each other when they turn. You have to make your opponent get greedy with them.

It gets a bit more complicated if there are other ships following behind, but it's still not terrible. Problems are kept to a minimum if you make sure pilots with higher skill are generally placed at the back of the formation, so that you can move fighters in order from front to back. It also helps to remember not to get greedy, if you're the Imp pilot: staying in formation is probably better than going for that perfect killshot, because the shot isn't worth it if it causes a 5-TIE pileup in an asteroid field.

(One good reason to field Biggs is the look on the Imperial player's face when he realizes he destroyed his formation in order to get that perfect Rng 1 killshot on Wedge… and then is forced to take a Rng 2 obstructed shot against R2-F2'd Biggs anyway.)

Posted at

Man, forget maneuvers even. Let's take a look at what happens before you even start moving.

  1. Setup obstacles
  2. Select table edge
  3. Deploy squads

Setting up the asteroids will greatly change the dynamic of the game. I would recommend that if you have a more maneuverable squad (3x X-Wing for example) then you want a field of battle with more asteroids. If you have a less maneuverable squad (8x TIE Fighter for example) then you will want more open spaces. Then you need to consider if you want to create a make-shift asteroid field, or an asteroid belt. A field of asteriods will create havoc in a central location. A belt of asteroids will allow for some maneuvering space, but create some really interesting options for maneuvers.

Selecting your table edge may seem trivial but remember that TIE Fighters can move at a top speed 5 and X-Wings/Y-Wings can only move at a top speed of 4. If that asteroid field you planned to use to your advantage is on your opponent's side of the table, the odds are they can clear it before you engage them. Did you ever wonder why the designers decided to always let the Rebels pick which side of the table they deploy on? This certainly wasn't an arbitrary decision as the Rebels seem to have more potential to benefit from terrain than the Empire does.

Deployment is done in order of Pilot Skill. In general this means that many of the TIE Fighters will be on the board before you place your final ships. This means that the Rebel player will often have a good idea of the Imperial opening before having to choose their opening. This is definitely one of the benefits of going with a Luke/Wedge/Biggs list. You deploy at pilot skill 5, 8 and 9 meaning that there are only six Imperial ships that would deploy after Biggs and they're all named. An army of eight TIE Fighters would have to be completely deployed before you selected your starting positions.

All three of these can be used to give you an advantage and you haven't made a single maneuver or rolled a single die. This is where wargaming awards skill over army composition and the same can be true of X-Wing battles.

Posted at

Alamoth said:

Selecting your table edge may seem trivial but remember that TIE Fighters can move at a top speed 5 and X-Wings/Y-Wings can only move at a top speed of 4. If that asteroid field you planned to use to your advantage is on your opponent's side of the table, the odds are they can clear it before you engage them. Did you ever wonder why the designers decided to always let the Rebels pick which side of the table they deploy on? This certainly wasn't an arbitrary decision as the Rebels seem to have more potential to benefit from terrain than the Empire does.

Deployment is done in order of Pilot Skill. In general this means that many of the TIE Fighters will be on the board before you place your final ships. This means that the Rebel player will often have a good idea of the Imperial opening before having to choose their opening. This is definitely one of the benefits of going with a Luke/Wedge/Biggs list. You deploy at pilot skill 5, 8 and 9 meaning that there are only six Imperial ships that would deploy after Biggs and they're all named. An army of eight TIE Fighters would have to be completely deployed before you selected your starting positions.

All three of these can be used to give you an advantage and you haven't made a single maneuver or rolled a single die. This is where wargaming awards skill over army composition and the same can be true of X-Wing battles.

Posted at

ScottieATF said:

CaptainRook said:

I keep winning and winning as long as I have no less than two Y-Wings. In fact, the only games I've lost were as Imperial. I also thinks Biggs' ability is very counterintuitive, as I'd rather force my opponent to spread their shots across my ships rather than focusing on something. I will not include Biggs in my lists.

What you are saying would make sense if there was any way to force you oppoment to spread thier shots. Presently there is no reason to not fly tight, overlap fields of fire, and throw all of your shots into one target until its dead. Asteriods can in some ways help, but they don't do enough, as you can just collapse in once around them.

There is just no real, consistant way, to force your opponent into spreading thier shots out. Your statement just doesn't hold water.

You can't force your opponents to spred out there shots, but you all Bigg's does is force them not to. I think his point is that Bigg's ability to force your opponent to focus all their attacks on each ship one at a time is not very useful.

I have killed so many Wedge, Biggs, Luke squadrons, by simply killing Biggs, then Wedge, then Luke.

Posted at

I've had more failure than success with my Rebel lists so far and it got me considering…

What about a ship roster with ships all the same pilot rank?

Sure, I'm foregoing taking Wedge, Biggs, et. al., but seems like the trade off would be getting to move and fire in whatever order I choose. In my head that's worth something. Maybe it's more a reflection of me not having played enough to manuever effectively or plan out my turns in advance based on the pilot skills, but the notion of 3 Red Squadron X-Wings and a Gray Y just won't leave my head.

Anyone experimented with this kind of setup yet? Or 3 Rooks and a Gold Y?

Posted at

Picasso said:

If you are playing rebels the advantage is at a distance. You would think that would go to the imps having four evade dice but it doesn't. Imps have a hard enough time scoring a hit on two attack dice. Let us be honest about this. All these discussions are void after the Kessel Run. But I digress, I think the strength of the rebels is when you play the missions. The missions are balanced, challenging, and fun. I find it disappointing that there have been no mission events yet for the game. The new ship event isn't any different from a regular 100 pointtourneythat favors the Empire.

In the mean time I suggest rebel players try the following;

biggs at range three of ties with rest of your fighters at range two but range one of Biggs.

horton with torps.

Don't take just Y-wings or X-wings. Mix it up.

Balance out named pilots and generics.

after I got passed the learning curve with the Imps I only lost to Doug at worlds and that was some imp on imp crime. I finally lost with the same list I took to worlds this past weekend. I think my cousin is close to cracking the rebel list but it will take some time. Successfully using torps is a huge part of rebel domanince.

Picasso said:

If you are playing rebels the advantage is at a distance. You would think that would go to the imps having four evade dice but it doesn't. Imps have a hard enough time scoring a hit on two attack dice. Let us be honest about this. All these discussions are void after the Kessel Run. But I digress, I think the strength of the rebels is when you play the missions. The missions are balanced, challenging, and fun. I find it disappointing that there have been no mission events yet for the game. The new ship event isn't any different from a regular 100 pointtourneythat favors the Empire.

In the mean time I suggest rebel players try the following;

biggs at range three of ties with rest of your fighters at range two but range one of Biggs.

horton with torps.

Don't take just Y-wings or X-wings. Mix it up.

Balance out named pilots and generics.

after I got passed the learning curve with the Imps I only lost to Doug at worlds and that was some imp on imp crime. I finally lost with the same list I took to worlds this past weekend. I think my cousin is close to cracking the rebel list but it will take some time. Successfully using torps is a huge part of rebel domanince.

I agree with most of what you are saying. Building a good list is any game is about taking good advantage of your options, not about always taking x or y.

I don't love Biggs.

I also agree that the rebels want to stay away from the Imprials, but that can be difficult when TIE's can move 5 and at least your x-wings can only shoot forward.

Posted at

Vorpal Sword said:

In tournament-style play, you're assigned an edge before asteroids are placed..

Well that's unfortunate.

Posted at

Hrathen said:

You can't force your opponents to spred out there shots, but you all Bigg's does is force them not to. I think his point is that Bigg's ability to force your opponent to focus all their attacks on each ship one at a time is not very useful.

I have killed so many Wedge, Biggs, Luke squadrons, by simply killing Biggs, then Wedge, then Luke.

Exactly. I may not always be able to force a target on my opponent, but when I take Biggs, they're going to focus no matter what. Rebel Lists really are like a chain, and Biggs is like making one of those links out of gold. It's shiney, obvious, not very strong and definitely expensive.

Posted at

Alamoth said:

Man, forget maneuvers even. Let's take a look at what happens before you even start moving.

  1. Setup obstacles
  2. Select table edge
  3. Deploy squads

Setting up the asteroids will greatly change the dynamic of the game. I would recommend that if you have a more maneuverable squad (3x X-Wing for example) then you want a field of battle with more asteroids. If you have a less maneuverable squad (8x TIE Fighter for example) then you will want more open spaces. Then you need to consider if you want to create a make-shift asteroid field, or an asteroid belt. A field of asteriods will create havoc in a central location. A belt of asteroids will allow for some maneuvering space, but create some really interesting options for maneuvers.

Selecting your table edge may seem trivial but remember that TIE Fighters can move at a top speed 5 and X-Wings/Y-Wings can only move at a top speed of 4. If that asteroid field you planned to use to your advantage is on your opponent's side of the table, the odds are they can clear it before you engage them. Did you ever wonder why the designers decided to always let the Rebels pick which side of the table they deploy on? This certainly wasn't an arbitrary decision as the Rebels seem to have more potential to benefit from terrain than the Empire does.

Deployment is done in order of Pilot Skill. In general this means that many of the TIE Fighters will be on the board before you place your final ships. This means that the Rebel player will often have a good idea of the Imperial opening before having to choose their opening. This is definitely one of the benefits of going with a Luke/Wedge/Biggs list. You deploy at pilot skill 5, 8 and 9 meaning that there are only six Imperial ships that would deploy after Biggs and they're all named. An army of eight TIE Fighters would have to be completely deployed before you selected your starting positions.

All three of these can be used to give you an advantage and you haven't made a single maneuver or rolled a single die. This is where wargaming awards skill over army composition and the same can be true of X-Wing battles.

(Yoda voice) Yes! Yes! To Alamoth you listen, hmmm?

I've been toying around with some Rebel builds in preparation for the KRT, and one thing that people forget about is asteroid placement. If I go with a 3 ship build (don't yell at me, I know 4 is better, just let me lose and have fun), and I assume I'm playing an Imperial squad, I'll set up the asteroids where I think the fighting is going to take place. My 3 ships can avoid the asteroids better than a 6+ TIE squad can. And if I know my maneuvers ahead of time, and I assume I know what the Imp player is going to do, I'll place the asteroids on my half of the board. I mean, seriously, what good does placing asteroids on the Imperial player's half of the board do if all he has to do is fly 5 and get past them in one turn? Guess what, now the asteroids that you placed are in YOUR way if you want to koiogran turn or something. And according to Alamoth, I go with the asteroid field theory, creating havoc for my opponent, while my 3 ships can maneuver a little better in them than a TIE formation can.

Posted at

CaptainRook said:

Hrathen said:

You can't force your opponents to spred out there shots, but you all Bigg's does is force them not to. I think his point is that Bigg's ability to force your opponent to focus all their attacks on each ship one at a time is not very useful.

I have killed so many Wedge, Biggs, Luke squadrons, by simply killing Biggs, then Wedge, then Luke.

Exactly. I may not always be able to force a target on my opponent, but when I take Biggs, they're going to focus no matter what. Rebel Lists really are like a chain, and Biggs is like making one of those links out of gold. It's shiney, obvious, not very strong and definitely expensive.

This is what doesn't make any sense.

You can keep from getting focused on when running pilots not named Biggs, but you bring Biggs and you can't help but put him under everyone guns? You can use the same tactics you normally use with Biggs he doesn't have to take every single shot. He's this there to add another dimension of avoidence by bringing him in and forcing bad shots at him instead of good shots at other pilots. You can just as easily juke him out of line to prevent every shot from going his way.

This is especially important with pilots like Mauler and Backstabber on you. A 4 dice attack on a 2 dice evade is devastating. It's like Wedge on a TiE. Biggs can turn a 4/2 to a 2/3, its a huge swing.

I just think it's disingenuous to say that you can force your opponent to spread his shots via manuvers, but in the same turn say with Biggs on the table he will eat every shot. They still have to have them in thier field of fire, it isn't like those rules change.

Posted at

Biggs has been a must include for me for a while now. To me he has one main role to play, and that is to buy my other ships some time to deal some serious damage. Pair Biggs up with R2-F2 and try to keep him at range and it makes a world of difference.

Posted at

DeadInkPen said:

Biggs has been a must include for me for a while now. To me he has one main role to play, and that is to buy my other ships some time to deal some serious damage. Pair Biggs up with R2-F2 and try to keep him at range and it makes a world of difference.

I'm not sure I agree that maneuvering is always enough, and I think there are definite benefits to encouraging your opponent to focus fire on a hard target. But I do appreciate the idea that Biggs' ability is situational, and depending on context, could even be considered a drawback.