Fantasy Flight Game established very clear guidelines for how this event is supposed to be conducted. These terms were not thrust upon those of us who chose to apply and participate, we agreed to them by taking the offer. While most players will likely be informed of this event through their Local Game store, and not the Fantasy Flight Games site, enough will have reviewed those terms to expect them. These kits were sold under conditions, and while I seriously doubt there will be any repercussions from Fantasy Flight for not upholding them, you should still play by the rules.

Chairborne said:

They had to apply to do this event. It was competitive (I know some stores who applied but didn't get selected). There were conditions to the application. It was not a burden for them to participate, it was a privilege to be selected. To change the terms after the fact is wrong in just about every way. Other stores that did not do this would have been selected if this was known up front. They are free to charge a fee to make up their expense. I absolutely would not go to an event held by a store who did this.

I ask them again to do the right thing and run the event as it was intended.

FFG did a real good job with this one. They dissapointed their fans so to make it up they offer tournaments for free where you can win sweet prizes. FFG then sells those prizes to local game shops, who are then instructed to not charge entry fee and take the full burden of loss on this promotion. If anyhting goes wrong the little people will jump down the throats of the game stores(who are running these events at a loss) while FFG looks like the heroes.


FFG sold these packs for what? $60? I'm pretty sure that is about what their profit margin would be on these 6-ships sold at a local retailer normally. So they hit their normal profit margins, stores lose out, people scream at stores for not following FFG guidelines. Brilliant.


If FFG wanted to have these events for free and have them conform to specific guidelines then they should have given the prize packs for free. The minute they sell them, they lose any moral right to tell people they are doing something wrong.


If your local game store took on the burden of this tournament then they should be praised and you should make every attempt to go and support them, and buy other products when you are there. They are the guys doing all the good work.

Who said the LGS can't charge a fee to make up for their expenses? All three stores in AZ are charging either $5 or $10. Most will break even and some will probably make a little money (which I'm a.o.k. with).

El_Tonio said:

It was stated on the B2B application.

I am sure FFG expected many stores to charge $5-10, but by stating that they shouldn't it makes them look good, and the store take all the heat. It's pretty genius really.

Deku_the_Evil_Clown said:

Deku_the_Evil_Clown said:

LOL…now it's a moral issue as if these stores were fined by FFG by making this offer. Hilarious. When you agree to something, the moral thing to do is to uphold that agreement. If you don't like the terms, don't agree to them. I don't typically defend companies, but FFG, in no uncertain terms, made it clear what these terms were. Not a single one of these stores had to spend a dime on this if they didn't think it beneficial to them and FFG didn't have to make this offer, either. The point of this was to give the players a fair chance at getting what limited supplies they had out there in as fair a way as possible, instead of creating a Black Friday situation, or keeping them off the shelves entirely until February. Now, as it would seem, some have taken it up on themselves to alter the deal(Yeah, pun intended) and therefore making it unfair for those players who are not part of a league, club, clique or inner circle.

I pray they don't alter it any further.

Looking at FFG's own advertisements for the event, it is very clear how prize support is to be distributed.

As sad as it would be for FFG who are trying to do the right things by the players, this store just doesn't seem to be playing ball.

I would be very tempted to aim for 3rd/4th at the first event, not get my prizes, and then challenge FFG on a false advertising basis.

FFG would almost certainly have no choice but to provide me with the prize support promised, and then take the hide out of leisure games for putting them in that position.

CaptainRook here is the perfect example of how FFG's strategy worked. He talks at length about how FFG didn't need to do this, and how they are just trying to help the fans get the product etc etc.

What FFG actually did was, fail to produce the quantities of ships needed to fulfill orders. They however wanted to sell the product they did have anyway, so the sold it to shops for a "Preveiw tournament", and told everyone they'd get a free tournament as a way to say sorry. FFG are not paying for this free tournament however, absolutely 0% of it. Local stores are. FFG are making normal profit levels on all ships. They are not making any of the specific arrangements surrounding local tournament organization. There exact level of input was creating a web page with a few paragraphs and some pictures, selling product to shops, and then telling shops to make all the arrangements and take the hit.

In FFG's original news article they also encourage people to ask their LGS to hold these events. This is another way of putting the burden on the shops, i mean FFG are arranging these amazing free tournaments, how can your LGS say no to holding one for you? That's pretty unfair. Anyone who says no looks bad, anyone who says yes has to hold a free tournament and lose money or charge for it and look bad while FFG continue to look good(because they made money selling some product they couldn't sell any other way, and told other people to hold free tournaments).


Instead of being annoyed at stores for deviating from set rules(which has already been confirmed by the distributor as allowed), you should look to FFG and whether or not what they did what was in the best interest of their fans and the local shops that support their game or if they did solely what was in their best itnerest from a financial point of view

@DtEC, I agree there MAY have been better ways for FFG to do this (at least from the perspective of the LGS), but I disagree that people should not be upset with a store that changes the rules after the fact (especially since applying was optional and competitive… not every store that wanted one got an event).

As someone pointed out, many people (including me) get there info from the FFG web page. Some people (fortunately not me) will have to drive an hour or two to go to an event only to find out that the terms were changed (maybe they wouldn't have gone had they had this info up front). That's not fair (and, I would not have even thought to ask before reading this thread as my initial assumption would be that everyone would follow the advertised rules).

No LGS HAD to apply for this if they did not think the terms were in their best interest. There would have been many other LGS to fill the void if that was the case, and if not FFG would have been forced to cancel the event or change the terms to make it worthwhile.

Give FFG all the blame you want. But, this does not excuse the LGS in any way since they knew all the terms up front and chose to participate (they were not forced to).

As an aside, there seems to be a lot of supposition in your second paragraph (as well as some of your other posts). Perhaps FFG paid extra to have some prizes shipped for this event rather than happening to have them around and just trying to unload them. That is just one example. But, even if you are correct in all instances (which I doubt), this was a choice not a requirement for stores, so they should go by the advertised rules which is what will get more poeple into the stores.

All of this is meant respectfully, so I hope it will be taken that way.

Panic said:

Hi Panic and any other Xwing players out there in London.

My Name is Oli and I am the co owner of the OG Games Web store and Gaming club.

I have just been on the phone to Oliver at Esdevium and he alerted me to this thread and filled me in with the details about the actual event.

So to clarify a few simple points

1) When we were first told about the kits, we were told they were demo kits being given out to stores to make up for the delay in the actual models being released. I emailed my Rep at Esdeviium asking for a copy if possible (as most of these things tend to only go to bricks & Mortar stores).

2) I only received confirmation that we could get one of these kits a few days ago, but still did not know any of the actual details, hence my partners lack of knowledge in replying to Panic on our facebook page (of which I have nothing to do with, NOT a fan of that site). I was still under the impression that this was just a demo kit untiI I then looked at the FFG site.

3) Having spoken to Oliver today, I know the facts, details, rulespack and cost of the kit (it is not free) and what is expected of us in running this event.

4) Having run lots of events at the club personally over the last 4 years, this is not a problem apart from the time factor (as in just under 2 weeks to prepare) and me running the web store singel handedly, 7 days a week during our busiest time of the year..

Their are lots of issues with this?
1st - under 18s will most likely not be able to play as it's in a Youngs pub - youngs are a chain of old style / old mans ale serving public houses.

This is not an issue in many pubs in London, so long as the minor is supervised by an adult (usual stuff) as the pub does meals, functions all the time. Teenagers over 16 I suspect do not probably want to have to drag their parents around, but are still welcome as I take responsibility for them whilst they attend our events..

2nd - I thought Kessel Run events were free? This club is £2 entry… I guessing to cover the private room hire .

we do indeed charge a sub to members during the week, not a kings ransom , this goes towards terrain, boards, new games for the club.

We do charge higher prices for our weekend events, and are in fact allowed to charge for this one (if we want to cover costs for the kit, staff etc)

However we wont be for this event, if we get enough people wanting to play

3rd - Kessel Run says it will happen at the week ends? This club meets on Mondays and Thursdays??

Yes the club meets on those nights, but we also run events most weekends of the year, this is no exception

4th - This is a club that it seems is run by the stores customers for the customers - I have a 'club' of friends who have a stock of our own games… wheres my kessel run pack!

No this is a club webstore, we are a fully functioning Online retailer, in our 4th Year of trading with customers all over the world. Club members however can buy items off the store and pick them up on club nights.

Until we have our own bricks and mortar store, the club is our best way of encouraging players in the London area to play games, try out new games and obviously they can buy stuff of us as well. Plus I have been a gamer for the last 28 years and I want somewhere to play myself

I am now going to start the prep foe the actual event which will be held on Saturday 15th of December at the OG Games Club in Wandsworth, South West London.

Full details will be on our forum in the next few days www.ogforum.co.uk and I will post on a new thread here as well, we have a few club players already who will play and have big enough forces, but i reckon we will need about 8-10 players in total to make this worth running and purchasing the kit.

Feel free to ask my any questions on here, PM me or contact me on twitter @oggames or @fatolaf

Cheers

Ol

We're the only store among several in the city that chose to run the event. Those stores did not feel held hostage to this program to maintain their sales, they just simply chose not to participate. I paid out of my own pocket for our store to have this event, because as a gamer, I wanted to do something to help make the best of this situation for a game I enjoy and a community I enjoy. So, that shoots your circumstantial exemplification of me right in the foot. No store I know of felt obliged to do this, and in fact, many of them weren't properly informed of it. Obviously, in the UK, the distributors mishandled it and misrepresented it, and were the line of communication there, but in the US, the stores had to find out from the players.

Why not just award vouchers that can be exchanged for the wave two models when they come out? I'm sure people would be sad not to have them in hand (reducing their ability to sell them on EBay), but players would get their tournament winnings and shops would have the Wave 2 kit to use to demo the game.

Thanks for that post Oli, it was very enlightening and pretty much what I suspected RE Esdevium and their communication with stores. No one here really knew anything about the event or what is expected of them. To make matters worse Esdevium are also out of all X-wing product now and are not expecting any more untill February at the earliest! Up here in Scotland most game stores now have little or no product in stock, and it is only available online. This is making it really hard to build local communities, and this event could have been a big help but no one that's been granted one knows anything about it, and few of the players here are aware of its existence. It's very frustrating.

Are you serious? The production delay was entirely out of FFG's hands. Its not like they vastly underestimated the demand for wave 2 and only had such a very small amount produced that they forced to allocate it this way while they scramble to get more made. Do you honestly think if they had any choice in the matter they wouldn't have wanted to have full saturation of wave 2 out for Christmas gift giving?

Your ideas on the Kessel Run events are just as bad. You're acting like FFG did something coerccive like force stores to spend the $60 for a KR kit as some condition on when/if they'd get the eventual normal shipments of wave 2. The stores didn't have to buy they kits. If a store didn't like the terms they didn't have to apply to run one of the tournaments. FFG went out of thier way to get this miniscule amount of wave 2 out to stores that want to use it to amp up local demand for the wave 2 ships.

You act like FFG also did something horrible by encouraging players to ask thier local venue to hold a tourny. That seems like an excellent way for a store owner to find out if there's enough player interest for it to be worth holding the event since, once again, no store is being forced to hold one. You seem to think FFG is setting it up like some sort of guilt trip to get stores to sign up even if they don't want to. Its a little dishonest, but at the worst if a store owner really didn't want to run one, they could eaily have said FFG didn't pick them as one of the few stores to get a kit. As for the burden of setting up and running a KR event remember the stores running these are GAME STORES. Its not like FFG is sending kits out to random Barnes and Noble stores and expecting the people who work there to just figure out how to set up and run a tourny at the last minute. These are going to game stores that most likely already have enough of a player base that they already run X-Wing games so orginazation of the event is more along the line of putting up a sign to let players know about the KR event and its prizes. At the worst they go to stores that would at least have experience running tournies for other card/miniature games since I doubt many stores go to the trouble of having tables set up for in-store gaming and then don't use them for some type of orginized play.

Apologies if that's a bit of a jumbled mess. I read this last night on my Nook and found I couldn't post here with it so my response to the thread sort of stewed in my head overnight.

Well, now it seems like FFG relied a little too heavily on distributors in their international markets to do anything other than what distributors do: Sell things. A little shortsighted on FFG's end, and a little careless on the distributor's end, but you can't turn a distributor into your own marketting department. FFG had an okay idea about letting the stores gauge interest via player demand, but they probably should have just communicated through more direct and conventional channels like they usually do with us. I think, at this point, it's that simple. It seems the locations in the UK were operating strictly on the information they were receiving demo kits, as perpetuated by their only source of information: Their distributor. To be fair, when I heard about this, I checked FFG's website for more information…so in all reality, everyone has a little responsibility. FFG didn't convey this message is a more direct way, the distributor didn't exactly handle this properly, and the retailers/clubs didn't seem to bother to do any research(Perhaps they shouldn;t be expected to, but I tend to never take things at face value)

@ Deku

I'm not putting the blame anywhere in particular, its just somewhere down the line, the info required for Retailers / Clubs has been delayed.

Leaving people quite angry on forums, having a go at innocent Stores / Clubs and us owners now with very little time to arrange these events.

To be honest seeing some of the Vitriol being spilled in cyberspace, it does beg the question, is it more hassle than it's worth

As for shortages, this was down to stores to manage and preorder effectively (even with rationing), as in we have quite a lot left in stock thanks to us being on the ball…

Shameless plug…

Ol

yeah,
@Fatolaf - Thanks for explaning the situation.
Reading my posts back they seemed fairly balanced with regards to disappointment and facts at hand, but If I offended you I'm sorry…

Cool stuff good to see that you may run the event. I'll be checking for details.
I see you have Y-wings in stock, If I attend your KR event I may pick some up to collect on the night if possible.

Panic…

Panic said:

No Offence caused

We will be bringing stock to the event so people can stock up on ships

Ol

Dear Fans of X-wing

I would like to respond to the comments on this discussion board for Esdevium.

There are 4 locations running the Kessel Run event in the London area. These are:

Leisure Games Finchley – who I believe were originally planning to run two events, one in store and one at a local convention. This is currently under review so anyone planning to attend should check with them first.

OG Games Wandsworth– who will be run it at their local club. This is in a pub function room but I have confirmed that under 18’s are welcome to attend although they are not allowed in the pub itself.

Heroes & Legends Croydon

Heroes & Legends Surbiton

Esdevium’s X-wing participation list http://www.esdeviumgames.com/news-and-press/star-wars-kessel-run/ is a list of stores that have agreed to run the Kessel Run event and not a list of the stores that supply X-wing. As a result of the concerns raised I spoke to several stores on the list today and I can confirm that all those I spoke to are aware that they are signed up to run this event in the near future. Specifically Manaleak have confirmed an intention to run the event but if you contact one of the stores shown and they tell you otherwise please let us know so we can look into it and sort out the problem.

To the best of my knowledge this event has never been advertised as free to enter. The kit does come at a cost to the participating retail stores (and indeed to ourselves) so you should probably expect there to be some charge for entry. What that will be is up to the individual organisers. Note that to win a prize you will need to be in the top 4 in the tournament.

FFG OP is not run in the same way as, for example, the Wizards Play Network and in the UK participating stores are not required to sign a contract to run events. FFG provide the materials, outline structure and marketing support and then leave the stores to choose timing and other details. However for the Kessel Run event they have said that there is a specific format to the tournament and that the ships provided are to be used as prize support. They have also specified a weekend for it to be run on and we anticipate that most events will take place then. However if stores need to change the date then it is our preference that they run the event late rather than not at all.

I hope this helps to clear up any confusion or misunderstanding. If you are interested in participating please contact your local organiser to find out exact details about their event. Personally I am very much looking forward to seeing the wave 2 ships in action at my local store and I hope that as many people as possible will be able to join me in playing in the Kessel Run!

Oliver McAllister

Esdevium Games Ltd (UK & Eire Distributor for FFG)

Seems like that the same scuttle type of venues are here in the US as well.The only one listed nearest me is hrs away..Yet there is a gamers den that is hosting one in my area that is nothing more than just that.. tables and chairs.. and extreme cover charge to boot .I asked my Hobby shop that has twice the space if they were going to have one.They told me no..They applied and never got a response..They had no word that the Yuppy den had gotten one…As far as they knew it was hrs away in 4 diff directions…From what I have seen and heard there will be countless areas across the US and abroad that were given the Kessel run and others that were passed up.. .Needless to say when wave 2 comes out there will be flooded orders for 2 mos, and then they will be drooling for the anticipation for wave 3, appetizers, and release…Never give up,Never surrender

First of all, I'd like to thank Oliver from Esdevium Games for coming to this thread himself after we talked via email to address some points, and to the store owners for showing up as well and giving their side of the story. Not sure I mentioned it before, but I am not averse to event holders charging a small tournament fee, but holding a "Kessel Run Tournament" without giving away the designated prizes is not kosher. I'm all for them doing other tournaments, but as the Wave 2 models are specifically designated to be used in the final round and as prize support, I think it is pretty uncool to use them as anything other than that. I mean, I'd be pretty upset if my prize Falcon or Slave I had been manhandled in multiple other tournaments before I could lay claim to them (hypothetically speaking, not saying I'm a shoe-in to win or anything). As such, I am very happy to see that this situation is being looked into; I hope that it gets cleared up.

As for the rest of the thread, I'm siding with FFG on this. It is remarkably common for companies to sell products to store with specific conditions on how they are to be used/distributed. If you don't like the conditions, you are not obligated to apply. And since these events were awarded in a highly competitive manner, it is unthinkable that a store would fail to honor the terms as laid out in the application. Saying that doing so is not only okay, but should be commended is akin to saying that stores should be fine selling video games before their release date, since "Hey, they paid for them, they should get to decide how/when they are sold!" Now, I'm not sure how binding the application is, but let's face it… If you are awarded a KR tournament for your store, you are pretty much bound by the conditions as set forth in the application. Not much else to it.

My FLGS is holding a KR event (the only one within about 100 miles, lucky!) and is neither charging an entry fee(which of course, I would be okay with/a small product buy in would also be okay with me) nor bending the prize rules in any way. This makes me feel like they care about their customers, and heck, it's already gotten me to spend $30 to flesh out my tournament squad. To all of those stores playing by the rules, I commend you!

Have you found out if there are any events here in Winnipeg? Stormtrooper721 said:

Details of the London OG Games event are now up

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=330&efcid=6&efidt=754269

Hope to see you all there

Ol