IThe majority of X-Wing's players would look at the Avenger and most likely say "they cut notches into the Advanced's wings and called it a new ship. What a money-grab."

The Avenger has a heck of a lot more mods than the wing cutouts:

Ovoid cockpit

Missile launcher "claws" on the sides of the cockpit

Teardrop shaped hyperdrive

Angular back section

Sleeker wing bracing

All of these combine to make it look FAR better than the Advanced. If anything, they'll look at it and go, "Now THIS is what the Advance x1 SHOULD have looked like!"

Yeah, completely different. But also the same. Say like the Northrop YF-17 which became the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet...

The difference between the TIE Avenger (TIE/ad) and Vader's prototype (TIE Advanced x1) is like the jump going from the TIE Fighter to the TIE Interceptor, and THEN going up an additional maneuverability tier, AND THEN adding 2 shields, AND THEN adding an upgrade slot for a tractor beam (cannon slot?).

The Avenger could outfly the Interceptor far better than even the Interceptor could outfly the standard TIE Fighter. Almost none of the responses on this thread seem to recognize that the Avenger's maneuverability was so absurdly good, that it can't even be properly represented with the current dial mechanic + engine boost. It literally deserves all green 2's/3's, and speed 2/3 white 135 degree turns. An accurate way to represent this would be the "Advanced maneuvers" that I discussed earlier, where you can essentially tack on a free 1 straight/bank when placing the dial, and reduce the color by one. And it was way faster too. If the Advanced x1 and Interceptor have a straight 5, then the Avenger would proportionally need to have a straight 6 or 7. Obviously there are issues with implementing any of this with the current dial scheme.

I think if FFG were going to have done the avenger, they would have skipped the advanced outside of a special title for vader.

edit: fixed the Avenger to Interceptor maneuverability comparison: The Avenger could outfly the Interceptor far better than even the Interceptor could outfly the standard TIE Fighter.

IThe majority of X-Wing's players would look at the Avenger and most likely say "they cut notches into the Advanced's wings and called it a new ship. What a money-grab."

The Avenger has a heck of a lot more mods than the wing cutouts:

Ovoid cockpit

Missile launcher "claws" on the sides of the cockpit

Teardrop shaped hyperdrive

Angular back section

Insignificant wing bracing

All of these combine to make it look FAR better than the Advanced. If anything, they'll look at it and go, "Now THIS is what the Advance x1 SHOULD have looked like!"

I totally agree, I may be in the minority, but I think I actually like the aesthetics of the Avenger better than the Defender. The Avenger looks like a sleek hunter killer that you had better start saying your prayers when it comes looking for you.

I totally agree, I may be in the minority, but I think I actually like the aesthetics of the Avenger better than the Defender. The Avenger looks like a sleek hunter killer that you had better start saying your prayers when it comes looking for you.

That's what I thought when I saw that first Interceptor in ROTJ...

"Holy crap! that's gonna murder some rebs!"

The Defender looks so terrible. What were they thinking with those ridiculous wings?

The Defender looks so terrible. What were they thinking with those ridiculous wings?

Aesthetically, they were thinking "how can we make a wild depature from the tie fighter..yet still be instantly recognizable as a tie"

Then they justify its wild looks by implying it needs the extra array to help with cooling because of how advanced it is yadda yadda

I still like it's looks

I think the Defender looks awesome, In space there is no reason not to go with a tri-linear design. And If they are solar arrays it makes sense for to want to cover all directions light could come in from rather than just 2.

Even still it would have looked far better had the wings been turned the other way around. Just my opinion. If the are going to bring another Imperial fighter in then I would much rather see the Avenger or the Missle Boat.

1. The Tie Defender looks awesome.

2. Gun Boats/Missle Boats and Avenger are no substitution for the Defender

Even still it would have looked far better had the wings been turned the other way around. Just my opinion. If the are going to bring another Imperial fighter in then I would much rather see the Avenger or the Missle Boat.

But why not both/and? The more ships the better, yea?

I thi

Even still it would have looked far better had the wings been turned the other way around. Just my opinion. If the are going to bring another Imperial fighter in then I would much rather see the Avenger or the Missle Boat.

But why not both/and? The more ships the better, yea?

I think there was some concern about their values to be so similar as to be indistinguishable except for how the models looked.

If you want to complain about the way the Defender's wings are angled they actually make far more sense that way than they doing going inward like they do on the Interceptor. When they tip out they don't affect your sight lines and seeing your target is important in StarWars when it comes to shooting it down.

In the Avenger vs Defender "debate" I could actually see the two ships have EXTREMELY similar base stats and even maneuver dials. The biggest differences should come in the possible upgrades.

Now if I'm not mistaken, the Defender is technically the superior fighter in comparison to the Avenger?

If so I would suggest beefing up the stats slightly... but there we run into the problem of having ships zooming around with 4's in their Agi stat or having crazy maneuver dials, or possibly needing special dice

By the by, anyone thought about a TIE Oppressor?

This is the thread that will never die.

It would, if/when the TIE Defender is actually done for the game.

Now if I'm not mistaken, the Defender is technically the superior fighter in comparison to the Avenger?

Again, that depends on which version of the Defender, since it got nerfed after its introduction. The original version in the TIE Fighter game was better than the Avenger in every regard except for price. The version in the later PC games was nerfed so it was more of a general purpose ship that was still respectably maneuverable (equivalent to a TIE Interceptor), but was inferior to the Avenger as a space superiority fighter. Basically think of the nerfed Defender as an Assault Gunboat (if you are familiar with that craft) that can fly like an Interceptor. The former is more inspiring, but the latter may translate better into the miniatures game.

1. The Tie Defender looks awesome.

2. Gun Boats/Missle Boats and Avenger are no substitution for the Defender

The Missile Boat would be crazy if they added it, but the ship would need an ability like "when performing a secondary weapon attack, you may spend one target lock to attack that target with up to two missiles or torpedoes".

The missile boat, at least the one I remember, could make an awesome addition. I remember it being extremely fast and very maneuverable but it had minimal firepower (1 attack die is almost too much) but LOTs of missiles. I'd expect it to have a missile upgrade card that would essentially give you limitless missile capacity; think something like a cannon system but one that requires a TL be spent to fire on a target.

Even still it would have looked far better had the wings been turned the other way around. Just my opinion. If the are going to bring another Imperial fighter in then I would much rather see the Avenger or the Missle Boat.

No, it wouldn't. I modeled it. It looks like hammered dog poo.

IThe majority of X-Wing's players would look at the Avenger and most likely say "they cut notches into the Advanced's wings and called it a new ship. What a money-grab."

The Avenger has a heck of a lot more mods than the wing cutouts:

Ovoid cockpit

Missile launcher "claws" on the sides of the cockpit

Teardrop shaped hyperdrive

Angular back section

Sleeker wing bracing

All of these combine to make it look FAR better than the Advanced. If anything, they'll look at it and go, "Now THIS is what the Advance x1 SHOULD have looked like!"

IIRC the ovoid cockpit was for one specific game and had to do with game engine limitations. It in no way is official. (in part because there's no official Avenger... The Decipher version from the old CCG was probably closest to how it should have looked. My favorite version is Ansel's [Fractalsponge] and is how I'm modeling mine. He may be "just a fan", but several of his designs are now canon)

Other than that, yes, a real Avenger model would look significantly different from an X1 and would be awesome to have.

Now if I'm not mistaken, the Defender is technically the superior fighter in comparison to the Avenger?

If so I would suggest beefing up the stats slightly... but there we run into the problem of having ships zooming around with 4's in their Agi stat or having crazy maneuver dials, or possibly needing special dice

By the by, anyone thought about a TIE Oppressor?

Not only the Oppressor, but I'm also making the Aggressor, Droid, Hunter, Phantom, Raptor and a few others (yes, also the Defender and Avenger). The problem is that I work at my own speed and haven't much felt like modeling lately.

They're all still WIP, but here's a few of them: http://s1064.photobucket.com/user/Hondo911/library/Empire%20Snubfighters?sort=4&page=1

I like Fractalsponge's rendering of the TIE Avenger the best. It's potentially a very lethal-looking fighter.

I just like the design of the Advanced x1 more.

I like Fractalsponge's rendering of the TIE Avenger the best. It's potentially a very lethal-looking fighter.

I just like the design of the Advanced x1 more.

Agreed that is one hell of a rendering.

http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Starfighters/index.html

http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Starfighters/TIE%20Avenger/index.html

That the first time I've seen the Assault Gunboat and liked what I saw.

http://fractalsponge.net/gallery/Starfighters/XG1%20StarWing%20Assault%20Gunboat/index.html

The TIE Defender! Lord of all fighters! Scourge of the Rebellion!

Despite the cards and the statements and the arguments I made about this craft.

Lets see when this ship will come and what stats it will have using a new POV.

This POV is about development.Development of starfighters within the Imerial Navy. And the development within FFG ... as long as it concerns X-Wing and the releases.

First we had the TIE Fighter and the TIE Advance only, like seen in Episode IV.

TIE Fighters are the cheap swarmers available by the thousends

TIE Advanced is the attempt to build a more resilant craft to cut the heavy losses, but it was a prototype only.

Then the Interceptor came, which used the Advanced Engines.

Before the Avenger was built, the Assault Gunboat was introduced, which came after the Lambda Shuttle.

And this would be next.

Lets make a quick try:

Assault Gunboat: 2-1-4-4

Chiss Clawcraft: 3-3-3-2 (not sure on this one - it may never be released)

TIE Avenger: 3-3-3-4

TIE Defender: 3-3-3-8 (maybe 2 shields less is still ok)

So the defender is the last ship in line (for now!). It may be released as one of the last ships to come.

As for the Bombers:

TIE Bomber: 2-2-6-0 (yeah im pretty sure about this)

(TIE Aggressor: 2-3-4-0 - 'light bomber' - not sure which stats would be best)

(TIE Oppressor: 2-3-3-4 - 'light bomber' - not sure which stats would be best)

TIE Scimitar Bomber ?-?-?-? (this one is ugly)

Eight shields?

Come on now.