Tie Defender Values?
You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar....
the dial i proposed was the interceptor, with green 5 straights and green 3 banks... might be too much
NA not overkill, if anything I would make the 3 turns green too -for the "original / munchkin / holy grail" version anyway. For the nerfed version the A-wing dial would be appropriate.
Are you planning on painting them? Also, I think I have the same tablecloth!
This version of the Defender seems perfect. Powerful, fun, and not game-breaking. I love the super-sexy models, but wonder if we might want to redo the PS9 ability just a tad. If played right, the Tie-D should never be in three or more firing arcs.
Could we give an ability like Luke's to automatically turn a focus into an evade once per round? Or perhaps a free reroll of one die the second time he's fired upon?
I really think it should probably have a boost, but it's **** close to being perfect, and I could see with 4 actions why you wouldn't want to give it a 5th.
Defenders are meant to be able to track multiple ships, so what about a pilot skill for one of the higher pilots that works like a FCS but the Target lock must be placed on another ship than the one you fired on. Maybe something like "After spending a Target Lock, acquire a Target Lock on another ship."
Edited by Rodent MastermindYes I plan to paint these.
What if we dropped the evade action?
A few rebel ships can do barrel roll and evade, which are primarily associated with imps. Why not work it the other way around, so that one imp ship lacks an imp quality.
I never evade unless I PTL with focus anyway.
Edited by Viceroy BoldaYes I plan to paint these.
What if we dropped the evade action?
A few rebel ships can do barrel roll and evade, which are primarily associated with imps. Why not work it the other way around, so that one imp ship lacks an imp quality.
I never evade unless I PTL with focus anyway.
You mirrored what I was thinking but hadn't said, dropping the Evade is the Action I would drop. In some ways it also makes the ship feel a bit more substantial.
I really think it should probably have a boost, but it's **** close to being perfect, and I could see with 4 actions why you wouldn't want to give it a 5th.
Defenders are meant to be able to track multiple ships, so what about a pilot skill for one of the higher pilots that works like a FCS but the Target lock must be placed on another ship than the one you fired on. Maybe something like "After spending a Target Lock, acquire a Target Lock on another ship."
How about;
"At the beginning of the Combat Phase, you may acquire a target lock."
That way the TIE Defender is effectively "locked onto" any/every ship it wants to be since it can pick its target freely after everyone has moved and taken actions. Plus it's pretty easy to word and implement.
Edited by KineticOperator
I really think it should probably have a boost, but it's **** close to being perfect, and I could see with 4 actions why you wouldn't want to give it a 5th.
Defenders are meant to be able to track multiple ships, so what about a pilot skill for one of the higher pilots that works like a FCS but the Target lock must be placed on another ship than the one you fired on. Maybe something like "After spending a Target Lock, acquire a Target Lock on another ship."
How about;
"At the beginning of the Combat Phase, you may acquire a target lock."
That way the TIE Defender is effectively "locked onto" any/every ship it wants to be since it can pick its target freely after everyone has moved and taken actions. Plus it's pretty easy to word and implement.
It would make it one of the most powerful abilities in the game. It's better than Han Solo's ability, as you get to reroll just the dice you want.
The reason I went with my version is it is powerful but you still need to judge how the battle is going to move on in the next maneuver phase, and judge which ship you will have in your sights. I think this balances it against Han Solo's ability which is always on, but has to reroll everything.
Edited by Rodent MastermindI really think it should probably have a boost, but it's **** close to being perfect, and I could see with 4 actions why you wouldn't want to give it a 5th.
Defenders are meant to be able to track multiple ships, so what about a pilot skill for one of the higher pilots that works like a FCS but the Target lock must be placed on another ship than the one you fired on. Maybe something like "After spending a Target Lock, acquire a Target Lock on another ship."
How about;
"At the beginning of the Combat Phase, you may acquire a target lock."
That way the TIE Defender is effectively "locked onto" any/every ship it wants to be since it can pick its target freely after everyone has moved and taken actions. Plus it's pretty easy to word and implement.
Given that the TIE Defender is more maneuverable than the Interceptor, I would say that it REALLY should have boost. How many action types can you fit on the card? Ideally even the nerfed version should have focus, target lock, boost, barrel roll, evade. If you can only fit 4, I would drop the evade.
Also, why not just play test with existing pilots? Just use Fel's and Vader's ability for PS9 ships. It makes for a more accurate baseline against similar ships.
Getting a free target lock per round sounds way too overpowered for a game that's all about the action economy. That's like getting a free push the limit every round, but without the stress, and you could still take PtL on top of it.
Edit: The way it is worded, (free target lock at the start of the combat phase), you would always be able to use it in the same combat round, since you will obviously use it on a ship within your firing arc. So, no, you don't even have to worry about maneuvers to use the ability.
Edited by MajorJuggler
Getting a free target lock per round sounds way too overpowered for a game that's all about the action economy. That's like getting a free push the limit every round, but without the stress, and you could still take PtL on top of it.
I agree, KOs version is far to powerful.
However having to have used a Target Lock and it happening after you have fired but before the next turn movement helps balance it, the enemy are aware of who he's going after so can better judge where he's going, can take defensive maneuvers, or even set a trap for him by placing a ship in his path or setting up fields of fire on the location they believe he will be moving to. The Defender pilot has to make a call over which ships will still be alive, and where they are going. It's tactically far harder to use.
I feel "After spending a Target Lock, acquire a Target Lock on another ship." is not really much more powerful than a FCS which is a 2 point card, which is fine for a high PS pilot, Vader's skill is better than PtL and that is a 3 point card, Fel's Ability is a free focus most turns.
Edited by Rodent Mastermind
Yeah, for a moment there my inner munchkin got the better of me...
FFG reads threads like this, "The nerds are doing our work for us."
FFG reads threads like this, "The nerds are doing our work for us."
Well to be fair, if I was independently wealthy, I would probably be building speakers, amplifiers, and designing some cool strategy game!
Hard to imagine a Defender without evade, even if it's hardly ever used. Gotta have it.
I have 5 proposals for PS9 skill.
1) At range 2 you roll 1 additional defence die vs primary weapon attacks.
So a buff to the defence rather like the range 3 stuff. Buff mid range combat.
2) At range 2 you roll 1 additional attack die for primary weapon attacks.
Again buffs mid range combat. Note would only say this if attack is 3...
3) When defending against a ship you have a target lock on, you may expend the target lock to choose any number of defence dice and re-roll them.
Perhaps a little weak?
4) When defending you roll an additional defence die against all attacks from a ship you have target locked.
Don't know how strong this would be. Would make you think about not spending the lock and taking adv sensors would be extremely useful.
5) Once per round when you take shield damage from a primary weapon attack, you may roll 1 defence die per shield lost. For each evade rolled regain 1 shield.
This is effectively saying you get buffed shields or the shield deflects the damage. Would be interesting to see how it plays. You could adjust the freq of the deflecting shields by using focus instead of evade for example. Note that if you had 2 shields and took 3 hits, you could regen 2 shields but would still take the single point of hull damage. You would also count as hit for many effects.
Edited by BilisknirHard to imagine a Defender without evade, even if it's hardly ever used. Gotta have it.
I would like to agree, just fit all 5 actions on the bar, and done!
This version of the Defender seems perfect. Powerful, fun, and not game-breaking. I love the super-sexy models, but wonder if we might want to redo the PS9 ability just a tad. If played right, the Tie-D should never be in three or more firing arcs.
Could we give an ability like Luke's to automatically turn a focus into an evade once per round? Or perhaps a free reroll of one die the second time he's fired upon?
I saw one earlier that proposed giving him a free barrel roll after evading an attack once per round, that I thought was rather sexy
I would really like there to be at least 1 PS9 named pilot.. if it means his points have to go up, I'm fine with that.
This gives you the option to play the initiative game and either drop your fleet total points to keep intiative over a fleet with wedge
And I would prefer evade stay on... I used it at least 2 times each of the playtest games to counter some of the oomph of Han with marksmanship and gunner and 360 degree arc.
how about we just put all 5 on the bar, and raise it's points by 4... the same cost of adding engine upgrade to another non boost ship?
I would really like there to be at least 1 PS9 named pilot.. if it means his points have to go up, I'm fine with that.
This gives you the option to play the initiative game and either drop your fleet total points to keep intiative over a fleet with wedge
And I would prefer evade stay on... I used it at least 2 times each of the playtest games to counter some of the oomph of Han with marksmanship and gunner and 360 degree arc.
how about we just put all 5 on the bar, and raise it's points by 4... the same cost of adding engine upgrade to another non boost ship?
I'll work some numbers later tonight on a non-munchkin version of the TIE-Defender, aiming for 33 points or less for the lowest PS version, for gameplay reasons.
I would really like there to be at least 1 PS9 named pilot.. if it means his points have to go up, I'm fine with that.
This gives you the option to play the initiative game and either drop your fleet total points to keep intiative over a fleet with wedge
And I would prefer evade stay on... I used it at least 2 times each of the playtest games to counter some of the oomph of Han with marksmanship and gunner and 360 degree arc.
how about we just put all 5 on the bar, and raise it's points by 4... the same cost of adding engine upgrade to another non boost ship?
I'll work some numbers later tonight on a non-munchkin version of the TIE-Defender, aiming for 33 points or less for the lowest PS version, for gameplay reasons.
drop my original 33 pointer down to ps 1, put all 5 core abilities on and see how 3 of them work in a 100 point match.
I think it's a doable beast.
I didn't read the whole thread as it has gotten rather large... has anyone brought up it's ability to engage multiple enemy ships at once? I could see it having 2 attack dice but being able to shoot at up to 3 targets, translating that into the ships rules outside of pilots skills would be kinda clunky IMO.
I really think it should probably have a boost, but it's **** close to being perfect, and I could see with 4 actions why you wouldn't want to give it a 5th.
Defenders are meant to be able to track multiple ships, so what about a pilot skill for one of the higher pilots that works like a FCS but the Target lock must be placed on another ship than the one you fired on. Maybe something like "After spending a Target Lock, acquire a Target Lock on another ship."
How about;
"At the beginning of the Combat Phase, you may acquire a target lock."
That way the TIE Defender is effectively "locked onto" any/every ship it wants to be since it can pick its target freely after everyone has moved and taken actions. Plus it's pretty easy to word and implement.
I would much prefer to see this "At the beginning of the Combat Phase, you may acquire a target lock." included as an upgrade card which is available to the Tie D and maybe the shuttle only. Make it the tractor beam. 6 or 7 pt upgrade.
To me a 2x defender squad of Onyx 1 and 2 at 100 pts with upgrades should be dangerous. You can't strap too much of it to the hull itself though when upgrades are more sensible.
I like the 33 ps2 pilot cost 37 ps6 named w elite and 40 ps9 named w elite pilot cost gameplay wise 33 means 3 barebones defenders
And seriously you are not going to see a ps1 defender. It's the most adv fighter they won't let a rookie test drive them
Edited by Gungo