I'm thinking over some considerations for Imperial lists. I think there's a sweet spot for the Empire at 7 ships, but I don't have enough TIEs to run it (nor do I care to spend another $30-$40 getting there.) So that leaves me thinking about running either 5 or 6 ships--and the difference between a 5-ship list and a 6-ship list is, to me, whether Vader is included. So the question is whether he's worth displacing two other TIEs.

One of his biggest advantages is that Focused Concussion Missiles in the first salvo make for a devastating first strike. Vader can prep and fire in a single round, without needing support from another pilot and without telegraphing the target to your opponent. He'll cripple Biggs or Wedge or a mirror Vader, strip focus and shields from a Y-wing, or destroy a Howlrunner or Mithel outright… and he can often do it before the target gets to shoot back.

His other main appeal is the double action. It means he can always afford to adopt both Evade and Focus/Marksmanship, or Barrel Roll and Focus. That makes him both consistently more powerful on offense and consistently harder to hit than the already-evasive base TIE.

But a Tempest Pilot and an Academy Pilot are almost the same cost (and an Imperial list can almost always find those extra one or two points). The pair have just as many actions, are about as durable, and can fire an extra 2-dice shot in every round. For those extra points, you get the same number of actions as Vader, plus an extra three hull points, plus an extra attack every round. The Tempest Pilot's missiles, if they're included, aren't going to be as powerful or as sudden as Vader's, but the difference is relatively small. The difference is even more stark when you consider the number of TIE/ln pairs that come in at or under Vader's base cost.

So I'd like to hear from some more experienced Imperial players: how much is Vader worth, compared to his cost? Is he a serious candidate for inclusion in a 6-ship list, or is it better to leave him off and spend the points elsewhere?

You can easily run 6 ships using Vader, and you can do it well. My KR build is leaning towards Vader leading the pack.

Yes. He's worth the points.

qwertyuiop said:

He's the chosen one. Destined to bring balance to the game….er…force. Of course you have to use him!

qwertyuiop said:

Kinney proved this.

Vader + Squad Leader or Swarm Tactics.. depends which one feels better after I test it a few games, Howlrunner, Night Beast, 3x Academy Pilots.

Vader is extremely valuable, and I feel as if you can't 'misequip' him. Although he certainly has an optimal loadout, he performs well with any of the Elite Pilot Talents. If you take missiles, I know Cluster Missiles seem to be the obviously beneficial of the two available, but I'll be honest, I've had much greater luck with Concussion Missiles. Nothing in the game quite makes up for his ability to Target Lock and Focus simultaneously, though.

Vader is really good at scaring the other team. However, don't stress him or make him collide into others or you lose his special ability.

Vader is my favorite pilot in the game. The hardest thing about Vader is deciding whether to give him squad leader (give his second action to someone else) or swarm tactics (give his 9 skill) to some one else. With Imperial always going first on ties, Vader with swarm tactics means that two of your fighters will always attack before any rebel ships.

Also add Howlrunner, even though he isn't a TIE Advanced, but his ability to help out ships next to him really is the best counter to TIE advanced only 2 attack dice.

Hrathen said:

she.

magadizer said:

yup, sorry missed that.

I've used Vader twice and he was great both times. Well worth his points. Easily terrified the enemy and could use Focus and Evade to go defensive or Focus and Target Lock to go offensive. Awesome.

I stand by an earlier statement posted in another forum. The best two point upgrade you can possible take in the game is tradding Maarek for Vader