Some people have claimed that you never want a y-wing without Ion-turrets. I thought that was true until I fought my brother-in-law tonight. Dutch's ability to give Target Locks to his buddies makes him an awesome support ship.

He kept feeding Target Locks to Luke (who had R2D2) and like an idiot I kept trying to kill Luke. Now admittedly Luke rolled really well and usually kept his damage down to a single hit per round which he immediately healed with a green move and R2D2.

But I have to say having a target lock and a Focus is really really good. Dutch Vander pretty much gave that to a x-wing every turn.

Other thoughts:

I agree, for a competitive game you will want four Rebel ships or you will be swamped by Imperials. 5 TIEs is the minimum that you should expect to face.

Wedge is a murderer. The reason why he will die fast is because if your opponent has fought him before he knows just how deadly he is.

I am not really a big fan of the Luke R2D2 combo. Yes he is really hard to kill, but a good opponent will ignore him and kill every one else first. Luke isn't that hard to kill if he is outnumbered 3 to 1 by TIEs without any support. I would like to point out that I lost my battle tonight, mostly because I forgot that a smart opponent will ignore Luke.

Not to many people have mentioned Biggs. And I have seen him used to protect Luke, but since smart TIEs want to ignore Luke and shoot down his wingman Biggs ability to draw fire isn't an advantage. However Bigs with Wedge is a whole other matter. Everyone wants to kill Wedge before he kills them, but if they have to shoot at Biggs then Wedge gets to kill that many more TIEs before you can focus fire on him.

My favorite list of named Rebels is

Wedge

Biggs

Dutch

Hoiw

Hrathen said:

I think the claim is directed more towards generic y-wings and Salm. Generic y-wings simply aren't a threat without an ion cannon. Dutch is because he basically provides free actions. Free actions = good actions all day, every day, cannon or no. I love that people are finally playing with him. Salm gets rerolls, yes, but he's too expensive to make use of them without torpedoes or a cannon.

Never shoot at Luke with R2D2 attached unless either of the following is true:

A) All other enemy pilots have been destroyed.

B) Luke is the only available target for a given pilot.

If you still have ship advantage after A is achieved, your opponent should concede…unless he's a tool, or just that good. (in a tournament game)

qwertyuiop said:

I question the bolded statement. Luke with R2 is a third of a 100pt squadron. He is particularly difficult to kill as well. I would see no reason to concede that game unless the Imperial squadron was untouched. I think it's really unreasonable to expect a concession with a third of a squadron still active, particularly in a tournament where Luke would out-point two TiEs (depending on pilots). Based on how scoring works in tournaments concession is always a poor choice as forcing your opponenent into a Modified Match Win could allow you to place ahead of them in the end. For example in a three round tournament if in the final round you have to Match Wins and your opponent has two Modified Match Wins, you'd take the tournament by fighting off the Match Win.

Hrathen said:

I somewhat agree that Dutch could be worth it Ion-less, but it is an iffy proposition.

But I disagree with needing 4 rebel ships to compete. I have 25 games with the rebels, most using three ship builds, and have had a very good success rate (90%+) against Imp builds ranging from 5 up to 7 ships. Included the Worlds winning build. With three ships you have to use Biggs at this point to really play evenly to be honest though.

ScottieATF said:

assuming a single TIE against Luke with R2D2, as long as Luke permanently uses green maneuvers, the only way the TIE can do any nett damage is through rolling 2 hits and getting 0 evades or focus from Luke, and he must constantly maintain the damage exchange or at the very minimum deal nett 0 damage (meaning deal him 1 damage and have R2D2 heal back 1 shield = nett 0 damage). He could aim for a range 1 finish with 3 dice hits and some really unlucky 2 blank result from Luke, but if he fails to pull this off the moment he gets into range 1, on the very next turn the TIE will overshoot the Xwing as it's slowest maneuver is a forward 2 or hard left/right 1, so it could be within range 1 of the Xwing now and get shot down. Also, any turn that the TIE fails to deal any damage to Luke, he has to start all over again

tl;dr, the only way for the TIE to beat Luke with R2D2 on in a 1v1 situation is pretty much have the TIE player personally choose the dice results for both the TIE and for Luke for every single attempt. anything short of that kind of imba exceptional luck means that it is impossible for the TIE to take down Luke, and all it does is a few mistakes on the part of the TIE player to get within the firing arc of Luke, and he can slowly wither down the TIE until it dies

So now I really hate to ask.

Where do we stand with lists. What are your top picks for lists given all this info I want to narrow down thoughts into lists - before I talk specific topics. Btw, this thread has been very insightful and much appreciated.

Cheers,

Shawn Morris

Theterrainstudio said:

my current favourite for rebel has been, and still is, the :

Luke + R2D2 + swarm tactics (i am considering changing this to squad leader, especially if you are facing squads with lesser ships or another rebel lineup, to give your other 3 ships a lot more firepower)

rookie Xwing x2

Gold Ywing + ionC + R5 astromech

Theterrainstudio said:

My personal Fave start with

Wedge and Dutch.

After that I usually add as many cheap ships as I can. Preferably x-wings. I usually give Dutch a Ion Cannon Turret. Just because I will take him without one, doesn't mean he isn't good with one.

Hrathen said:

something like:

Wedge

Dutch empty

Biggs (or rookie Xwing + R2D2 anywhere)

gold Ywing + ionC

looks pretty funny, unsure if it will work or not XD that's if you want a 4 ship combo with both of them in. gave the ionC to gold Ywing instead to mess up your opponent's targeting priorities, so your dutch can expect to live for a bit longer

either that or:

Wedge + R5

Dutch + ion C

rookie Xwing x2

So here is my final list:

Wedge + R5

Dutch Vander + Ion Cannon Turret

2 Rookie Pilots

I could consider trading the Ion Cannon Turret for a Proton Torpedo for Wedge, but I think the Ion Cannon is a better buy

Taking into all what you have said about, why people will or will not shoot Wedge/Luke first.

Thoughts about a power house set-up

Wedge

- squad leader

- R2F2

Luke

- protons

- R2D2

Dutch

- ion cannon

- R5K6

My favorite lists thus far are as follows:

Rebel, 4 ship

• Biggs, R2-F2
• Wedge
• Rookie x2

Imperial

TIE All-stars, (Squad Leader on Howlrunner, Determination on Mauler)

Theterrainstudio said:

This issue I see with this squad is that Luke's only valid target for Squad Leader is Dutch. And given the R2-D2 on Wedge and, well…Luke, in my mind that makes Dutch a tasty 30-point priority. And with no one to defend him, Dutch won't last long against a TIE swarm or Rebel torpedo barrage.

Did a little rearrangement

Theterrainstudio said:

This is a pretty solid list, but R2D2 on Luke make a ship that is already hard to kill harder to kill. Wedge and Dutch will attract all your enemies fire and Luke's (and R2D2's) abilities will be waisted.

You have three Different Droids, I don't have them all memorized, but that is a lot of points for them

If you want to go with three ships, giving Wedge Proton Torpedoes (especially if Dutch is around) is a good idea.

Theterrainstudio said:

Personally I'd rather have Expert Handling on Wedge than Squad Leader, for that extra maneuverability to set up his range 1 kill shots.

I haven't gotten around to trying this list out yet but i was thinking about:

Wedge - no upgrade

Biggs - no upgrade

Gold Squadron Pilot (x2) - Ion Cannon Turret(x2)

The idea being keep Biggs at range 1 of Wedge to soak up fire, giving Wedge more time on the board. If outnumbered, the Y-Wings will attempt to keep 2 enemy ships immobilized, setting them up for Wedge and Biggs.

What do you think?

TrueFiction said:

I like this list

Hrathen said:

r2f2 is a horrible idea for wedge, hes much better at survivng when he focus (or needs a kill shot)

R2D2 is great on luke, mainly because either they can choose to go after wedge first (hes their biggest threat in the short run) or luke -if they dont focus fire on him during the first few rounds, they wont have enough fire power to keep his sheilds down when its endgame

TrueFiction said:

I have had much success with this list. More importantly, I have had much fun with this list.

ScottieATF said:

Allow me to clarify. Ship advantage in this instance is 3 TIEs to Luke, and concede can be an outright concession, or a loss due to time. Yes, Luke can make green maneuvers and focus, but green maneuvers mean predictability which means he gets shot. Luke might be able to eke out a timed win, but not with green maneuvers and not when the TIEs take evade every round and decide not to attack.

Point is, once a game has been reduced to 3 TIEs on Luke, it just becomes tedious. It's not a hopeless situation, but it doesn't look good for Luke. Play it out a few rounds. Great. But if the game is leaning more towards a timed loss for the rebellion, take the timed loss, go get a snack, and spend the remaining time making a friend. That's my opinion.

Ok….

Wedge

- Protons, Marksmanship, R5K6

Luke

- Squad Leader, R5

Dutch

- Ion Cannon, R5D8

Ideas:

Wedge - hits hard with protons, and marksmanship. Use R5K6 to attempt to keep the target locks on for free. Worse case Dutch gives him one, allowing the marksmanship to be effective.

Luke - Gives out free actions to dutch - to allow him to use R5D8 and minmize damage, Luke has surviability, and with the extra droid he can hope to minimize the damage he is dealt should it be critical.

Dutch - Hits hard with ion cannon to slow ships down, Uses actions to acquire target locks and gives freebie to Wedge. Minimize damage via the R5D8 droid and the free actions from Luke.

This group obviously works best clustered and within range 1-2 of each other, outside the formation each ship has its weakness but in close they have some nice overlapping coverage I think. Thoughts?

you should have wedge and dutch swap astromechs, squad leader on luke is very wasted since the only person who can benefit from it is dutch, i suggest you take that and his R5 astromech out and give him marksmanship instead. R5D8 is inferior to R2D2, I only consider R5D8 when i already have R2D2 in the team. something like:

Wedge

-Ptorps, R2D2, expert handling

Luke

-Marksmanship

Dutch

-ionC, R5K6

R5K6 given to Dutch because of the synergy between them, if R5K6's ability goes through, Dutch ability activates again. This frees up actions for both Wedge and Luke, who can then use it for other things like marksmanship etc. i switch marksmanship over to luke to make him a bit more combaty, and gave expert handling to Wedge. He can do things like green maneuver, repair 1 shield via R2D2, then barrel roll out of an enemy firing arc, then still plummet somebody with Dutch's free target lock. On the next turn, another green maneuver to get rid of stress and repair 1 shield, and you can barrel roll again, i think you can see where this is going. Luke with marksmanship is pretty good since now he has Dutch to give him the target locks, he doesn't really need focus either due to his ability.

if you need more staying power because you are a 3 ship build and find yourself taken out too quickly, toss the R2D2 over to Luke with this exact same build.

That's pretty much the same build I was going to try out. Hopefully after Christmas I'll have a few more ships to throw into my squad, but for now I'm on a buying freeze per my wife's orders so that things can be used as presents…