Or we could just wait for the rulebook as those numbers may have been tweaked since the demo.
Ten Sets limited, or an optional number. Which is better in your opinion?
Meaxe said:
Budgernaut said:
This is what I remember from the demo videos and reviews. So a game starts off with basically a 14-round limit; when the Death Star Dial reaches 14, the game is over. The Death Star Dial advances at the end of each round (or after the Dark Side player's turn?). But if the Dark Side player has destroyed an objective, the dial increases by two every round thereafter. If you've destroyed two objectives, it advances by three every round. So if a Dark Sider got lucky and destroyed one objective in the first turn and a second objective in the second turn, the Rebels would have only 5 rounds to take out three Dark Side objectives (or meet some other game winning objective like taking over Coruscant or destroying the Death Star). So destroying Rebel objectives could be really important for Dark Side players.
I'm pretty sure you are wrong (no offence). From my understanding:
- At the start of the Dark Side player, the dial advance 1 click.
- If the Dark Side player has the force with him (has won the force struggle), the dial advance 2 clicks at the start of his turn.
- If the Dark Side player destroy an objective card, the dial advance # clicks where:
# = first objective destroyed = 1
# = second objective destroyed = 2
# = third objective destroyed = 3
etc…
P.S. I'm not sure about the numbers, it could be more than that, but I'm pretty sure it was explained somewhere (article or video); so if someones remembers the exact numbers that would be great. And a link to the article or video even greater.
So it's not cumulative? That changes things. I'll have o think on that more.
And no, Houjix, I'm not going to just wait for the rulebook. I've been on these forums speculating about this game since the announcement that FFG got the SW licence back in August of 2011. I'm not about to stop now just because the rules release is imminent.
Meaxe has it correct as of what I demoed at Gencon. The only number I'm not sure of is the 3rd objective, for some reason i'm remembering it being 4 clicks on the dial, but I could be mistaken.
The gory details: Light side must destroy 3 objectives to win. Dark side must advance their Death Star Dial to twelve. The Dark Side's first objective kill accelerates the clock by one click. Two clicks on the second objective and so on. If the force is on the Light Side at the beginning of the light side player's turn, the Light Side player gets to assign one damage to an enemy objective. If the force is with the Dark Side at the beginning of the DS player's turn, the DS player gets to accelerate the dial by an extra click. Thus if the Dark Side can gain and hold the force, the game will only last for six turns instead of the normal 12.
Up to two clicks a turn plus clicks for destroyed objectives? What is this? Warhammer: Invasion?
We'll really have to wait on the rule book for objective limitations, though with the new cycle information about objective set releases…. if there are objectives which can be taken twice, they seem to be designed to be part of a 50 card(10 objective) deck.If this is true, it's possible to assume that if one of these objectives gets destroyed, the other copy in the objective deck is still usable. It may even already be in play unless it is unique. Ruling an extra copy of an objective as dead is a bit anti-mechanical considering the streamlined approach to design we've been told about. If you have 5 Vaders in a deck somehow and one of them dies, you're still going to be able to play another one. It's a little silly to lose 8% of your deck's playability because Vader got kicked in the goodies by a tauntaun. Keeping all copies of an objective live, and usable in a streamlined 50 card deck seems like part of the design for this streamlined game, especially if the dark side can potentially win fairly quickly. I think some might be reading a bit more into Mr. Lang's words. 10 different objectives are probably just 10 objective cards. This was a write up for the game and not the rule book. But! Objective decks are different from play decks, so we will see.
qwertyuiop said:
Up to two clicks a turn plus clicks for destroyed objectives? What is this? Warhammer: Invasion?
We'll really have to wait on the rule book for objective limitations, though with the new cycle information about objective set releases…. if there are objectives which can be taken twice, they seem to be designed to be part of a 50 card(10 objective) deck.If this is true, it's possible to assume that if one of these objectives gets destroyed, the other copy in the objective deck is still usable. It may even already be in play unless it is unique. Ruling an extra copy of an objective as dead is a bit anti-mechanical considering the streamlined approach to design we've been told about. If you have 5 Vaders in a deck somehow and one of them dies, you're still going to be able to play another one. It's a little silly to lose 8% of your deck's playability because Vader got kicked in the goodies by a tauntaun. Keeping all copies of an objective live, and usable in a streamlined 50 card deck seems like part of the design for this streamlined game, especially if the dark side can potentially win fairly quickly. I think some might be reading a bit more into Mr. Lang's words. 10 different objectives are probably just 10 objective cards. This was a write up for the game and not the rule book. But! Objective decks are different from play decks, so we will see.
I'd imagine, if you had to discard Vader from play because he was defeated in a battle, there would be no reason why you couldn't play another one. SW:CCG was all about multiple copies of your main characters, because it not only helped you get them out faster, it also let you play them again if one was lost from the table.
In effect, being "Lost" didn't necessarily mean "killed" in the abstract sense. It could represent anything you want to imagine it would, along the lines of recovering from an injury, escaping to fight another day, etc.
The only time you could have a main character be truly "killed" in SW:CCG were the more rare events and situations that specifically say "place out of play", which would then render any extra copies you have of your main character useless for play, but at least you could still use them for Force Drain fodder.
The same applies to this game. If there are cards that would actually "kill" Darth Vader, and stop you from deploying another copy in a future turn, you don't have dead weight in your deck, because you can use the other Vader cards for the Edge battles.
The thing with stacking many copies of Uniques in your deck is always that it accelerates your ability to get a powerful character out on the table, but at the expense of the overall number of characters you can theoretically have on the table at the same time. If there is a "place out of play" style effect that shows up in this game, then you will just have to take that risk into account when you decide to go all-in on multiple Vaders (or whatever persona you want to over-indulge in).
We can hypothesize that the Darth Vader card in the Core Set will be part of an Objective set you can take twice, and the Hoth preview article mentioned another Vader character in that cycle, so assuming that Vader card can also be taken twice by way of two copies of that Objective set, you now have 4 Vaders in your 50 card deck.
Whether or not that becomes practical for game purposes will of course need to wait until we have all the rules and cards and actual play experience under our belts. The dilemma looks like it can come down to whether or not you want to hang onto those other Vaders in your hand to replace him if he's lost from the table, or use him in an Edge battle to clutch out a win that way. Who knows, maybe we'll see some serious "place out of play" cards, like an Epic Duel type scenario, in the future.
Cloud City cycle perhaps?
qwertyuiop said:
Up to two clicks a turn plus clicks for destroyed objectives? What is this? Warhammer: Invasion?
Good to see I'm not the only person with this thought! I think this is possibly my only major gripe about this game, that it might well be over so quickly. A Game of Thrones, and sometimes Lord of the Rings, can often be quite lengthy and immersive games that let you frolic in their respective universes for a good while and generally are worth the trouble of getting to the table. As much as I love Warhammer: Invasion, it does sometimes end up being over in the blink of an eye - by design, as well. So while I was hoping for a game where we could lose ourselves in the GFFA for hours on end, it does sometimes look like this may not be the case.
I do hope that we get to see many cards that will interfere with the progress of the Dial of Doom, perhaps not so that it becomes a major deck theme, but certainly a significant part that will allow the Light Side more of an actual chance. As I recall, the Dark Side player always gets to go first too, so that's yet another unfair advantage the Dark Side has, to add to the list. I suppose, at this period of galactic history though, this mechanic is nothing but thematic…
spalanzani said:
I do hope that we get to see many cards that will interfere with the progress of the Dial of Doom, perhaps not so that it becomes a major deck theme, but certainly a significant part that will allow the Light Side more of an actual chance. As I recall, the Dark Side player always gets to go first too, so that's yet another unfair advantage the Dark Side has, to add to the list. I suppose, at this period of galactic history though, this mechanic is nothing but thematic…
It's not an unfair advantage, per se. It's just asymmetrical gameplay. Obviously this game isn't anywhere near as asymmetrical as Netrunner, but a Dark Side player is going to play differently, and is going to HAVE to play differently, than a Light Side player. The Dark Side, on a fairly fundamental level, is playing a defensive game, whereas the Light Side will lend itself to aggro and rush playstyles. The Dark Side starts out, but can't initiate any challenges its first turn; it's just setting up its defenses. Imagine if they didn't have this opportunity, the Light Side goes first and would just run roughshod over the defenseless Dark Side, which wouldn't make any sense from a thematic perspevtice.
alpha5099 said:
spalanzani said:
I do hope that we get to see many cards that will interfere with the progress of the Dial of Doom, perhaps not so that it becomes a major deck theme, but certainly a significant part that will allow the Light Side more of an actual chance. As I recall, the Dark Side player always gets to go first too, so that's yet another unfair advantage the Dark Side has, to add to the list. I suppose, at this period of galactic history though, this mechanic is nothing but thematic…
It's not an unfair advantage, per se. It's just asymmetrical gameplay. Obviously this game isn't anywhere near as asymmetrical as Netrunner, but a Dark Side player is going to play differently, and is going to HAVE to play differently, than a Light Side player. The Dark Side, on a fairly fundamental level, is playing a defensive game, whereas the Light Side will lend itself to aggro and rush playstyles. The Dark Side starts out, but can't initiate any challenges its first turn; it's just setting up its defenses. Imagine if they didn't have this opportunity, the Light Side goes first and would just run roughshod over the defenseless Dark Side, which wouldn't make any sense from a thematic perspevtice.
Well exactly, the thematic point is one well made. I think my choice of wording, viz Unfair Advantage, was perhaps the wrong choice!
Usually I prefer to play the Rebels, though in playing X-Wing recently I've had to play the Empire - I'm not very sympathetic to them as a faction, but I suppose I am beginning to see things from the Imperial perspective (I do love it when I can use the title of a comic or a novel in a sentence!) Though I must say I'm still looking at this game from a Rebel-player perspective, and thinking "oh jeez…"
alpha5099 said:
spalanzani said:
I do hope that we get to see many cards that will interfere with the progress of the Dial of Doom, perhaps not so that it becomes a major deck theme, but certainly a significant part that will allow the Light Side more of an actual chance. As I recall, the Dark Side player always gets to go first too, so that's yet another unfair advantage the Dark Side has, to add to the list. I suppose, at this period of galactic history though, this mechanic is nothing but thematic…
It's not an unfair advantage, per se. It's just asymmetrical gameplay. Obviously this game isn't anywhere near as asymmetrical as Netrunner, but a Dark Side player is going to play differently, and is going to HAVE to play differently, than a Light Side player. The Dark Side, on a fairly fundamental level, is playing a defensive game, whereas the Light Side will lend itself to aggro and rush playstyles. The Dark Side starts out, but can't initiate any challenges its first turn; it's just setting up its defenses. Imagine if they didn't have this opportunity, the Light Side goes first and would just run roughshod over the defenseless Dark Side, which wouldn't make any sense from a thematic perspevtice.
One of the preview articles stated that the game is designed to favor the agressor, and that the dark side shouldnt have any room to just sit back. This will probably be due to a need to proactively destroy certain characters and objectives that benefit the light side plan a lot, and of course also advancing the death star dial.
It also seems that they will theme the force packs around this, the battle of hoth cycle seems to pit the empire as the agressor through objective design, encouraging the dark side to go on the offensive to "drive the rebels off hoth".
all in all I'm very interested to see how well they succeed with their stated goals design wise 
cleardave said:
qwertyuiop said:
Up to two clicks a turn plus clicks for destroyed objectives? What is this? Warhammer: Invasion?
We'll really have to wait on the rule book for objective limitations, though with the new cycle information about objective set releases…. if there are objectives which can be taken twice, they seem to be designed to be part of a 50 card(10 objective) deck.If this is true, it's possible to assume that if one of these objectives gets destroyed, the other copy in the objective deck is still usable. It may even already be in play unless it is unique. Ruling an extra copy of an objective as dead is a bit anti-mechanical considering the streamlined approach to design we've been told about. If you have 5 Vaders in a deck somehow and one of them dies, you're still going to be able to play another one. It's a little silly to lose 8% of your deck's playability because Vader got kicked in the goodies by a tauntaun. Keeping all copies of an objective live, and usable in a streamlined 50 card deck seems like part of the design for this streamlined game, especially if the dark side can potentially win fairly quickly. I think some might be reading a bit more into Mr. Lang's words. 10 different objectives are probably just 10 objective cards. This was a write up for the game and not the rule book. But! Objective decks are different from play decks, so we will see.
I'd imagine, if you had to discard Vader from play because he was defeated in a battle, there would be no reason why you couldn't play another one. SW:CCG was all about multiple copies of your main characters, because it not only helped you get them out faster, it also let you play them again if one was lost from the table.
In effect, being "Lost" didn't necessarily mean "killed" in the abstract sense. It could represent anything you want to imagine it would, along the lines of recovering from an injury, escaping to fight another day, etc.
The only time you could have a main character be truly "killed" in SW:CCG were the more rare events and situations that specifically say "place out of play", which would then render any extra copies you have of your main character useless for play, but at least you could still use them for Force Drain fodder.
The same applies to this game. If there are cards that would actually "kill" Darth Vader, and stop you from deploying another copy in a future turn, you don't have dead weight in your deck, because you can use the other Vader cards for the Edge battles.
The thing with stacking many copies of Uniques in your deck is always that it accelerates your ability to get a powerful character out on the table, but at the expense of the overall number of characters you can theoretically have on the table at the same time. If there is a "place out of play" style effect that shows up in this game, then you will just have to take that risk into account when you decide to go all-in on multiple Vaders (or whatever persona you want to over-indulge in).
We can hypothesize that the Darth Vader card in the Core Set will be part of an Objective set you can take twice, and the Hoth preview article mentioned another Vader character in that cycle, so assuming that Vader card can also be taken twice by way of two copies of that Objective set, you now have 4 Vaders in your 50 card deck.
Whether or not that becomes practical for game purposes will of course need to wait until we have all the rules and cards and actual play experience under our belts. The dilemma looks like it can come down to whether or not you want to hang onto those other Vaders in your hand to replace him if he's lost from the table, or use him in an Edge battle to clutch out a win that way. Who knows, maybe we'll see some serious "place out of play" cards, like an Epic Duel type scenario, in the future.
Cloud City cycle perhaps?
Thank you for opening up that nutshell. I was a little too fried from work to expound further. Yes, Vader should not be "blown away" like Alderaan. Letting Obi Wan "become more powerful than you can imagine" was something I prepared for in my light side deck…or was that Luke… I mean, my opponent was only going to let me get away with using Gift of the Mentor a limited number of times. 