Rules for colliding with obstacles state:

When a ship executes a maneuver in which either the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically overlaps an obstacle token, follow these steps:

1. Execute the maneuver as normal, but skip the “Perform Action” step.

2. The player rolls one attack die. The ship then suffers any damage or critical damage rolled (see “Suffering Damage” on page 16).

Consider a two turn example. Turn 1, a ship ends it's move on an asteroid, with the front end in free space such that any maneuver template will not overlap the asteroid, and the rear on the asteroid. It rolls for damage that turn. Next turn, does it have to make a damage roll, since the base overlaps the asteroid at the maneuver? What happens if the front of the base is in the middle of the asteroid, so that any maneuver template will overlap the asteroid when placed?

Thanks.

I'd say roll again for the second maneuver. Those asteroids are tricky…and I can totally see why tournaments use them. Even at "only" 6 of the buggers, the make a wonderful mess of things.

I have played where you only roll an attack die on the first of the two maneuvers. On closer reading of the rules, I'm not sure that this is correct though. Kingbobb may have the right of it.

But if you accept this tougher interpretation, wouldn't the way it is worded mean that no matter what, you roll an attack die after landing on an asteroid? "When a ship executes a maneuver in which either the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically overlaps an obstacle token, follow these steps:"

Or should we just understand it to mean the location of the base at the END of the move? (I guess probably the intended meaning)

As written, I think that unless you collide with another ship, when moving the ships base only exists at the beginning and end of the template. It's a "pick up and place" effect, as opposed to a "slide along" effect. At least that's my understanding of it.

If asteroids can effect a single ship twice for passing it once, that makes them very nasty.

doctormungmung said:

Based on the text of the obstacles section, I do not believe the "pick up and place" is correct.

Moving into and Through Obstacles

When a ship executes a maneuver in which either
the maneuver template or the ship’s base physically
overlaps an obstacle token , follow these steps:

1. Execute the maneuver as normal, but skip the
“Perform Action” step.

2. The player rolls one attack die. The ship then
suffers any damage or critical damage rolled
(see “Suffering Damage” on page 16).

Important: When overlapping an obstacle token,
the ship stays where it lands (on top of the token).
A ship that is overlapping an obstacle token during
the Combat phase cannot attack any ship but
may be targeted by other ships as normal.

If you can just ignore an asteroid because it's in the middle of your move and the template doesn't touch it (but the ship's base would during the move) then you're really not going to see asteroids matter very much.

We play that if you get hung up on an asteroid, you roll once for when you move onto it and again the next turn when you move off. Both times the base and/or template is physically overlapping the obstacle token so why would you expect a freebie move the second turn?

And yes, asteroids can be very nasty if you get hung up on them and then have to move off in the the next turn.

Jim

From the Activation Phase part of the rulebook (where basic movement is handled):

Execute Maneuver: Holding the template firmly in place, grip the side walls of the base and lift the ship off the play surface. Then place the ship at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the ship into the opposite end of the template. Exception: To execute a maneuver, see “Koiogran Turn.” If the ship has any tokens assigned to it (such as action tokens or stress tokens), move these tokens along with the ship.

Note: If a ship executes a maneuver that causes either its base or the maneuver template in use to physically overlap with another ship base, see “Moving Through a Ship” and “Overlapping Other Ships” on page 17.

It specifically says pick up and place. Now, in other areas of the rulebook, it says "move" in place of that, which is more ambiguous.

Having played several games recently where asteroids were major factors, even if it's just the beginning and ending ships base plus the movement template that causes collisions, I don't think they'll have their impact significantly reduced. But that's just my opinion.

How you physically move the models is also relevant considering the edges of the map. If you execute some banks or turns near the edge of the play field, you might have the movement template go off the edge. So the model can begin and end completely on the field, but the black maneuver template goes off. I think this is legal (i.e. the ship does not "flee the battlefield") because of the lift and place movement, combined with the wording about the base overlapping the edge at the end of the movement.

to be consistent (since this is all an arbitrary rule anyways, as you are simulating something in with a certain degree of abstraction) I would say that if the front of the base is overlapping the asteroid, thus causing you to place the maneuver template on the asteroid token when you make the second move, then you roll an attack die again. If the maneuver template does not overlap, then you do not have to roll an attack die. I think that abides by the letter of the rules, and even makes some sense thematically. (Whether you are still moving through the asteroid, or are basically moving out of it, having cleared what is ahead of you.)

doctormungmung said:

Yes, that is correct. And for ease of play, we do that too. But nowhere in the rules am I led to believe that your ship just teleports to the end of the template and you get to ignore obstacles that your base would touch along the route of it's movement. You seem to essentially be saying that you get to ignore obstacles that the maneuver template isn't touching unless it is at the end of the move. I'll have to disagree with that interpretation.

But this could definitely use an official clarification on proper procedure.

Jim

If you want to avoid thinking of it as teleportation, then imagine that the ship turns on its side, or ducks the wing under the obstacle in 3d space. Again, it's arbitrary, as the movement templates and bases are all the same for different ships, and don't represent a literal movement either.

The section on Leaving the Battlefield also implies that the path of the ship is along the template as well, even if you just pick it up and put it down at the end.

Jim

By reading the rules again I would believe in the "two steps for traversing an asteroid", but prior to read it I imagined it would be different, with only one "event". The thing is that imagining timing and simulation cases, the rule for collision does the job for the moment/resources that ship would have to invest in order to avoid the obstacle, thus ending the first application would resolve this "simulation".

It seems I have a chance to ask away another question, that has to do with this tread of course.

When rolling the attack die for obstacles, do I get to roll my defense dies? Or does I simply roll one attack and look for miss and hit?

Sorry for my bad English, it's not my first language!

For anyone who does not think you need to physically move your ship model along the path of the maneuver template, please go look at the tutorial video. They demonstrate moving the ships. And pick them up, slide them physically along the path of the template (and tell you to do this) and place them at the end. So, I definitely believe the intention is for ships to be moved following the path of the template and that is how I'll be continuing to play until there is an FAQ clarification that says otherwise.

Jim

It looks cool to do that in a computer animation, but doing that on a tabletop is not a great idea. I think I'll stick with the the letter of the rules on movement unless there is a clarification, rather than an animation in a computer, which does not account for the practicalities of physically moving the pieces.

The only time I slide them back along the template is when there is a collision and I need to place the piece in the right spot.

I've submitted it as an FAQ question so we'll get the proper method eventually.

Until then, I'll stick with the method we're using now as it seems really gamey to avoid an asteroid just because you want to pick up the ship for the sake of convenience.

Jim

I quibble a little with saying that people do it "for the sake of convenience". It is, in fact, exactly what the RAW instructs the players to do, tutorial video to the contrary.

Well, from my perspective, the RAW does not direct you to ignore things along the maneuver template. It simply says to pick up the ship from the playing surface - but it's really not possible to move the ship without doing this. So I think people are clinging to much to the "pick up the ship" portion. Nowhere that I see does it say to ignore obstacles along that path of the maneuver template. The section on obstacles directly contradicts the RAW of picking up the ship and placing it at the end and ignoring obstacles along the path.

What they really needed was an example box illustration in the obstacle section and they get a fail for not having one.

Hope they hurry up with that FAQ because I want to start a league and tournaments and am really hesitant to do so prior to one being released.

Jim

Emrico said:

i interpret that as "either the maneuver template or the ship's base (at it's end point) overlaps an obstacle token), so if you are on an asteroid and fly out of it, if no part of the asteroid is under the maneuver template, you do not need to roll nor do you lose an action. It doesnt make sense that you would be penalized twice for the same mistake, compare to say if you were to forward 4 through an asteroid instead of doing 2x forward 2s. More so that you are prevented from attacking if any of your base overlaps an asteroid already, so if you were to lose and action and possibly get a hit again while moving away from the asteroid, it really is a very very heavy penalty imposed on this rather small mistake.

unless of course you somehow manage to end up entirely inside the big asteroid template, then you kinda deserved it.

Emrico said:

You don't ignore obstacles…but they only come into play if the movement template OR the ship's base overlaps the asteroid counter. The ship is not sliding along the counter…no where in the rules does it say to do that UNLESS you cannot place your ship at the end of the template…and even then, it's not really sliding along the map, but you're just looking for a place to put your ship counters because this is not a real space-ship simulation, but a board game that favors less rules/realism for more fun/ease of play.