In a rebel vs rebel match, if biggs is outside of a Y-wing firing arc but within that of the ion cannon, how would his ruling resolve? I can fire at the target with my primary weapon, but can and must attack biggs if i want to use the ion cannon? Then what if biggs is at range 3 in my firing arc and another target is at range 2 but out of my firing arc, and i have ion cannons?

I think you could choose which weapon to use (primary or some secondary weapon) and then would have to target Biggs if that weapon could. The rules are not entirely clear though, I would suggest submitting the question to FFG and hoping it makes the FAQ.

" Other friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted by attacks if the attacker could target you instead. "

The "you" is Biggs. It doesn't specify primary or secondary weapons. If Biggs can be targeted (by any means) you cannot target anyone else if that ship is within Range 1 of Biggs. Declare Target is the first step in the Combat Phase .

The question you would have to ask yourself when declaring a target is "Can Biggs be targeted?" If the answer is "Yes, if I use my Proton Torpedoes." then you need ask yourself "Is Biggs within Range 1 of the ship I want to attack?" If the answer is "Yes." Then you cannot target the ship you want to target.

Roy

I disagree, but mostly think that the rules aren't actually clear. The rules don't really specify when during an attack you pick which weapon you're using. It seems to me most likely that you pick at the initiation of the attack (before picking the target). In that case, you would not be forced to use the ion cannon to target an out-of-arc Biggs instead of using your primary weapon (or torpedo) to attack someone in arc. Likewise, I think that if Biggs was at range 3 you could use the ion cannon to attack at range 2 and not be able to target Biggs.

Once again though, the rules aren't clear on this one. If the choose weapon part comes any later than I'm assuming based on my reading of the cards then you would have to first pick Biggs as the target and then pick a weapon that could target him.

drkjedi35 said:

When reading it exactly, I'd argue that you are correct. However, intent is a lot more important especially since they don't seem to have anyone with a degree in English working for the company.

I wouldn't be surprised if when they clarify the ruling, they say that it depends on the weapon chosen.

Seems clear enough as written to me.

1. Declare Target: The attacker chooses which enemy ship he wishes to attack.

First you choose the target in Step 1.

2. Roll Attack Dice: The attacker rolls a number of attack dice equal to his ship’s primary weapon value (red number), unless using a secondary weapon (see “Secondary Weapons” on page 19).

Primary vs Secondary Weapons don't come into play until its time to roll the dice in Step 2.

Roy

No, rolling attack dice doesn't come into play until step 2. The number of attack dice rolled depends on which weapon you're using, true, but that doesn't mean that you don't decide which weapon you're using until step 2. If weapon choice wasn't checked until step 2, then secondary weapons would have all sorts of problems as they set up different ranges from the primary weapon and sometimes different fire arcs. Range and firing arc are checked in step 1. If you can't decide that you're using ion cannons before step 1, then you can never fire outside of your firing arc with them.

I'm just listing the order as it is stated in the rulebook. There is nothing left out from what I posted.

Step 1 says to choose the target you wish to attack. It would probably be in your best interest to choose a target who you can use your primary or secondary weapon against.

Step 2 says roll the dice for your primary or secondary weapon. Your choice. If the ship you want to target cannot be attacked by your primary or secondary weapon, then you chose poorly in Step 1.

Still seems very clear to me.

I think that step 0 comes first - shoot at Biggs.

Let me come at this a different way.

You, as the player of the game, have choices that you have to make in your head when determining which ship to target. "Maybe I should attack that guy because I might be able to kill him before he gets to attack." or "If I target the ship behind me, I can use my Ion Cannon and possibly cancel his maneuver phase next round." These are things that help you decide who you should target. The same goes for primary or secondary weapons. You're not gonna choose to target the ship on the other side of the map, because you don't have weapons that can hit him. You're smart enough to choose a ship that you can actually use your weapons against. Game makers have to assume that you, as the player, have the ability to choose a target without having to describe the decision making process in the rulebook. So they simply say, choose a target.

Roy

Major Mishap said:

Dat 'stache.

From the rule book:

"1. Declare Target
During this step, the attacker (the active ship) must
declare its target (the ship he wishes to attack). The
target ship must be inside the attacker’s firing arc
and within range."

So if you have to choose target before choosing which weapon to use, you cannot ever use an ion cannon outside of the firing arc (note that the ion cannon does not change your firing arc, it just allows you to pick targets outside of the firing arc, but only if you're using the ion cannon).

drkjedi35 said:

Check pg. 10. You're not going to choose to target the ship on the other side of the map because the rules clearly say you cannot target a ship outside of your firing arc and range.

drkjedi35 said:

You are ignoring the idea of intent. There is always the possibility the game designers didn't word the card properly.

dbmeboy said:

Wow, you just pwned him with the rule book. Nicely done. Be sure to collect your smug when the FAQ comes out.

Normally I'm a pretty hardcore "rules lawyer" myself, but he isn't even considering the possibility that the game designers messed up the wording of the sentence.

ShadowJak - Why does it have to be about showing someone up? Why do you have to jump in peoples face? Why can't it be a friendly disagreement? I'm sure dbmeboy isn't thinking like that. Throttle back!

And I'm not ignoring the fact that there could have been a mistake made. That is always a possibility. Its possible that they meant to say that you choose a weapon before you choose a target, but all we have is what they did say. If you start second guessing everything that they said, then you might as well throw the whole rule book out because maybe they worded it wrong. I admit that I could be wrong. Just like dbmeboy could be wrong. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Roy

ShadowJak said:

ShadowJak said:

Thanks a lot, you just discovered the game is completely, broken due to a minor inconsistency in wording. I'll never be able to play it with enjoyment ever again! Perhaps I can get a refund on my now useless Y-wings if I tell them that I got a defective product.

Yeah, I really think this one could end up going either way, I'm just trying to point out the reasons I came to my conclusion. Sorry if it came off as smug. They really are missing some important things in the rules, and this is one of them.

drkjedi35 said:

I'm just joking. It really isn't a big deal to me and I'm really just parodying how intense people can get over rules in games like this. There is obviously no real way to collect smug.

Back to the rules issue at hand. I find it weird that Biggs being on the field would not only dictate your target but also your choice of weapon. I doubt the game designers would have wanted that, but I'm not basing that opinion on much more than a hunch.

EDIT: Don't forget that smug is a good thing.

dbmeboy said:

Don't misunderstand. Smug is a good thing.

Well, also this is probably one of the less common tested rule ambiguities since it involves mirror match play.

magadizer said:

Mirror matches happen 50% of the time in tournaments assuming equal amounts of players from each side show up.

Also relevant for playing against Imperials…if Weapon Selection happens before target selection, then I can choose Concussion Missiles which can't be fired at Biggs because of target lock…right? If it's target then weapon then I have to use blasters on Biggs of course.

Roy, I see what you're saying, but I think there's another way of looking at it that you haven't considered. Think about the entire phrasing of the Ion Cannon card, specifically the very beginning of it "Attack:…". That's all I actually need for this example. Now, when we're talking about actions you have the choice of choosing any action before you carry it out. There are some printed on the card, which would be equivalent to a primary attack. Then there are some on upgrade cards, which have "Action:…" to denote your option to choose them. You choose an action, and then progress from there, and yet that part of the 'process' was not listed in the rulebook as a step. So you could say that you are choosing your "Attack:…" option on the upgrade card as a pre-step part of the process in combat. Then they lay out the steps to resolve the Attack. Does this make sense?

And yes Grindar1, I think that might potentially be another way around Biggs.

KarmikazeKidd said:

I think you are correct in your interpretation of the rules and the final results.