When claiming power for your House is subject to a replacement effect, is the play restriction on Infamous! met?

Infamous!
Response: After a player claims 1 or more power for his or her House, move that power to a character.

Infamy
When you claim power or move power to your House, you may place it on any card with the “Infamy” keyword instead of placing it on your House. Power on a card with “Infamy” does count towards your victory total, regardless of the card’s type.

The Brotherhood Without Banners
If you would claim or move power to your House, you must place it on a Brotherhood] character you control instead. Opponents may choose and take power from your Brotherhood characters to fulfill the claim of [POW] challenges initiated against you.

Yes. Just like a character that is killed but put in the dead pile "instead" is still considered "killed" for Response purposes, power that is claimed for your House but placed on a character "instead" is still considered "claimed for your House" for Response purposes.

Thanks for the answer.

ktom said:

If I got it, you have said that:

A power desitnation is modified from : "claim a power on your House:House card" to "claim a power on your House:Fraternity character".

The very same way that Darkstar : "discarded:discard pile" is replaced by "discarded:into play".

It makes sense, but I'm not sure this makes it right. One could also say:

"claim a power:House card" is replaced by "claim a power:Fraternity character". And in that situation, the event Infamous! could not be played.

Take this example then. If a char-genda character is killed for MIL claim, so would become moribund:dead… except they are moribund:agenda (provided they meet all criteria).

The character is still dead even if the destination changes. This is why you are still able to play events like Blood for Blood when your char-genda character becomes an agenda. They are still killed. They just ended up in a different place than normal.

Changing the destination of the power has no relivance that power was just claimed for your house.

Also, by that logic, you could never use the Infamy(or the Head of a Dwarf attachment effect) keyword when using the Brotherhood without Banners agenda. I think Sloth hit the nail on the head with his example.

What it comes down to is that these are common replacement effects. All other common replacement effects are defined, for the passive/Response opportunities created, by the way the effect initiates, not by the way it resolves.

That's what happens in all the examples you have seen. In your Darkstar example, the effect initiates as a "discard from hand" effect, so that's what you Respond to, even though the common replacement effect leaves the card in play. In Sloth's character-agenda example, the effect initiates as a "kill" effect, so that's what you Respond to, even though the common replacement effect puts the character onto your House card as an agenda instead of in your dead pile.

Effectively, the correct interpretation for Darkstar is "discarded --> into play" instead of "discarded --> into discard pile" and the correct interpretation of the character agendas is "killed --> moribund:agenda" instead of "killed --> moribund:dead pile."

The other thing to keep in mind is that "claim power for your House" cannot be interpreted as "claim power --> house card." It must be interpreted as "claim power (House) --> token on house card." We know this because of card's like Siege at Winterfell. It prohibits "claiming power for your House" (except during MIL challenges), but we all know that does not stop you from claiming power on your characters. That is consistent with an interpretation of "claim power (House) --> token on house card" vs. "claim power (character) --> token on character card," but not with "claim power --> house card" vs. "claim power --> character card."

So, since we know that "claim power (House) --> token on house card" is the way to go, it is easy to see that when the common replacement effect on Infamy or BwB gets involved, it becomes "claim power (House) --> token on character card." Consistent with the Darkstar and character-agenda examples, that means you still Respond to "claim power (House)."

Hope all of that makes sense.

Thanks for these clarifications. Still one thing I don't get.

I'm perfectly ok that we can respond to a character being killed even if he goes to Agenda. Because his destination do not matter for effects such as Blood for Blood. As a matter of fact, only a kill effect is required, without any specific destination.

But Infamous! requires that the power was claimed "for your House", hence specifying a destination that is not valid at the time the Response is triggered, because of Brotherhood agenda replacement effect.

It is exactly the same principle. How can you respond to the kill if the result isn't a dead character in the dead pile? Infamous! responses to power being claimed for the house. Which was done. It just was re-directed to a character.

Now if Infamous! said "move power from the house card" then by all means I would agree the power would have to be at that destination and infamy/brotherhood would not work. However, it doesn't matter where the power went. It only matters that it was initially claimed for your house.

*edited for some clarity.

Bolzano said:

Common replacement effects do not kick in until Step 3 (resolution) of the action. So you cannot consider them as part of checking the play restrictions for initiation in Step 1 (they haven't been applied yet). So when you claim power for your House (unopposed, Dominance, Make an Example, etc.), the "House card" destination is still valid when the effect is initiated (ie, when you check the play restrictions for the effect) because the Brotherhood agenda has not been applied to the situation yet. It is applied when you go resolve the effect, take the power out of the power pool, and attempt to actually place it on the House card (the same way that the character-agenda's replacement effect is not applied until you go to resolve the kill effect and the game attempts to actually switch it to the 'moribund:dead pile' state).

So, the replacement effect, by virtue of not being applied to the situation until Step 3, does not change the legality of initiating a "claim power for your House" effect in Step 1. And, as we have said, what is initiated is what you Respond to.