This topic needs an update since the tourney rules have been updated with the following:

"If, through a card effect, a player “cannot win the
game,” he cannot be awarded a win or a modified win
for that match. (His best possible result is a draw.)"

Also we know that:

"If the time limit has been reached, the player closest to
his victory total (in power) earns a modified match
win and his opponent receives a match loss."

So what happens if the player running The Maester's Path is the closest to his victory total (in power) but did not place all his Chains?

He should earn a modified win and his opponent gets a match loss. He cannot receive a modified win so he gets a draw if both players have the same power total. Otherwise, both players receives a match loss.

What happens in a Melee game? The rule above is only in the Joust section of the Tourney rules.

Based on what those rules say, I believe that it's only a draw if you are against another player that "cannot win". Otherwise it will always be a modified loss. I think that is what they were aiming for when trying to simplify the rule.

But it makes it possible that both players get 0 points, right?

Bolzano said:

If that's the case, what do you do in an elimination match that has a time limit?

We're a little late to this topic. The modification in the way TMP is treated at time limit was in the Tourney Rules update from July, too.

Bolzano said:

In all other situations where the game goes to time limit and no one has reached their win condition, the player with less power gets at least a modified match loss. I'm not sure why he should receive a full "match loss" in this situation.

If you go to time limit and the TMP player has both more power and chains left on his agenda (the only situation that matters; all the rest are easy), we know that he can't get a win or a modified win. The best he can do is a draw. So, if all other measures besides the chains on the agenda say that he would have won, I'm not sure why he would automatically be knocked all the way down to "full match loss." Why wouldn't he get his "best possible outcome"? Of course, if he does get a draw, then he has to draw with someone.

You can't have two "losers" in a match any more than you can have two "winners." I think it's pretty clear that, in a situation where a TMP player has more power, but still has chains, at time limit, the result is that both players "didn't win." Well, if both players "didn't win," the match is a draw.

That's the way we would have handled it at Gencon (when these rules were first in force). Of course, the situation never came up.

Bolzano said:

So, if we accept the idea that anyone playing TMP that still has chains on when the game ends cannot "beat" anyone, they can only draw against (they have the same or more total power) or lose to (they have less total power) each other player at table. So, at time limit in a Melee game, the best a TMP player with chains on their agenda can do is 3 total points (1 for having more or the same power as every other person at the table).

Ratatoskr said:

It should not be possible for both players to get 0 points. Why in the world would a full loss, instead of a modified loss, ever be awarded in a game that goes to time limit without anyone reaching their win condition? The worst that should happen is that both players get 1 point.

But as I said above, that's not what happens. How can both players "lose" the match? What really happens is that neither player "wins" the match -- and that's a draw (2 points each).

The rule we follow at Gencon is that if an elimination match goes to time limit and there is a draw, you go into "sudden death." Play continues until the moment that the "no one wins" condition is broken. Without the TMP factor, that translates to "the next guy that gets 1 power." With TMP, things could go longer.

(Let the "someone ought to fix that!" flames begin….)

Thanks for your answer on this topic.

I was not sure that the result should be the best possible outcome (a draw), but it is. Also, FFG has confirmed this.

We had a tourney this week end (76 players for Joust) and this situation did came up.

This is of huge importance for Stahleck, where there will be a time limit far into the elimination rounds.

ktom said:

Is that a revealing slip of the fingers? As in you think a draw should be 2 points for each player rather than only 1?

Khudzlin said:

The update rules from last week say a draw is 2 points.

Match Win = 5 points

Modifid Match Win = 4 points

Draw = 2 points

Modifid Match Loss = 1

Match Loss = 0 points

Khudzlin said:

Slothgodfather said:

Is there any software that can be used under new tournament rules?

1. Get a program that does Swiss pairing for chess tournaments.
2. Turn off the option that allows competitors to be paired more than once if they play different colors.
3. Set it up for 5-point matches.

That should allow you to give any individual player 0-5 points in a match, according to the point totals in the tourney rules document.

ktom said:

I missed that update. We had a big tourney this week-end and we probably would have used that scoring system. Now if only they did the same for 3-player melee table draws.