Hi!

Yet another topic from the needy GM that I am,Iwanted to now something about the monetary system.
I don't now if it's the way I do things but it doesn't seem to me that Acolytes make much money. I ruled that every real life month which passes gives them their salary as well as in game months as we don't play that often.
So what's your opinion on the money system ,is it flawed? Is it made to be hard? Or am I just doing something wrong?
Thank you,
B.Kaedran

Well, like many other things in the rules, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

This has been discussed before, and if you search I am sure you will find the threads. But to summarize:

The rules assume that the characters "don't quit their day jobs". That they still receive their professional incomes, and work for the Inquisition "on the side". I have never played a DH campaign where that seemed feasible, and the written adventures have the characters sent across the sector on short notice, which I assume would cause problems with any day-job you may try to hold down.

If they're working full time for the Inquisition, then basing their income on any job they may have had in the past seems equally strange. They should be given the tools that they need (not necessarily the tools they want) to do the job, and the money they need for expenses. They should also be given compensation/salary, but for their new job as Acolyte.

At Ascension level it is suggested that Throne Agents receive a salary of 1000 thrones pr Rank every month, regardless of their chosen Career Path. As Ascension starts at Rank 9, this means that they have some 9-16 000 to spend, each month. But these are powerful, high-ranking people.

As for the low incomes of "regular" Rank 1 people, it is assumed that this is Disposable Income, Ie after regular expenses for rent, food, mortages and whatnot have been payed. So that makes it a little easier. This is basically your "entertainment" budget

I tend to make it work the other way around. They work for the Inquisition but when they aren't actually on a job they can if they wish investigate some things from the campaign on the side or they can do some work on the side. Their previous work is what gives them the chance to get side work (so for example the assassin career means they get hitman jobs on the side). This is represented by the income mechanic - but it also means they can work wherever. I think this works for pretty much any of the classes (except maybe sororitas sister). So I also give them resources 'from their Inquisitor' as well and they never have to worry about food etc. unless it is related to the circumstances in the mission.

To be honest I quite like that they don't get loads of money on the side, it makes the time taken to leap to boltguns etc. more gradual so that if/when they pick one up from an enemy they are really pleased with it! Or they have to save and save. If the Inquisition knew they were going to run up against genestealers (for example) when they were being sent in then of course they would be given access to requisitioned weapons/armour of appropriate level if they didn't have it already. After all the Inquisition doesn't want them to die (necessarily)…

I am with Brother Kane on this. I find it a lot more realistic, and it is also backed up by the advancement in levels, the character is still an Arbite, Adept, Guardsman or whatever. It also feels cooler that they are sometimes whisked away from their everyday lives to do something out of the norm (working for an Inquisitor).

The fact that the Acolytes have to be fairly scrupulous with their money is something that grounds them slightly, it makes every day feel more real and indeed restricts them on what purchases they can make. As a GM I am quite tight with handing out money or indeed anything good to the players, they have to work to get it and thats what makes everything so much more enjoyable. My current group is level 4 and they pretty much have the same gear they started off with but im sure theyre going to want to 'upgrade' very soon. I really like the added element that the earning of money bringsas opposed to say RT or the like where its not really so much of an issue. The players feel they have earned what they have

Don't get me wrong, I say keep'em poor! Why would the Inquisition waste money on paying people for the Privilege and Opportunity to show your Purity and Dedication by Serving the Emperor? Hell, they should pay Inquisition for the Privilege, right?

But in my games, at least, the characters are no longer Guardsmen or Adepts, they are Acolytes. They have a new job now! Which, in some cases, might pay worse than the one they had. Or better, all depending

Man, my players are constantly pressuring me for new rewards, new gear, new items. Always asking the Inquisition for funds! Freaking bugging me- I've usually gotten around that problem by leaving them stranded, away from the Inquisitor, completely on their own for long periods of times.

But that's not going to work anymore- not after we start over.

I am thinking of abusing the "You should be paying us to serve the Emperor" line. I will be sure to explain how the Investigation mechanic as is in the rules is in their advantage, as the slower passing of time allows them to acquire more thrones

Well, this makes even less sense!

If you're investigating a cult, and it's taking you a long time…. thats even MORE time spent away from your day job. Why would your employer pay you to be off on Acreage investigating missing bodies?

Wait- what if its taking such a long time BECAUSE you spend so much time in your actual job instead of being an acolyte??

I don't like that either- and I agree with you, that once you become an acolyte, that should be your new job.

Even though everyone should have the same salary, I guess some people are worth more to the Inquisition than others. I am surprised Clerics are higher on that list than Adepts.

Have them access the Inquisiton Armoury, but set up a requisition chart: meaning rank 1 acolytes can be loaned a laspistol with an autogun loaded with manstopper, a flak vest and a microbead (after a successful bureaucratic or literacy roll to properly filled the paperwork-failiure only means he need to roll again and waste some in-game time to do so, not that the items are denied) but not a power armour, boltgun and plasma pistol. They can also get the Quartermaster as a contact (from the IH book) allowing the to perhaps requisition a fancy piece of gear to help them in thier mission.

Like that, they'll be saving their money for that special wepaon or armour or gear they want (so have good or best quality mundane items like pistols and such is now more viable and possible) without having to plunder every person they turn into cadavers for basic things like ammunition, wepaons and armour. Becasue sometimes, a dead man's is just that, a body going colder as time goes by rather than a possible treasure chest.

Well I run a game with a hands-off Inquisitor but I guess I'll have give some items to the player as I reward . Another plan I had was to have the players ask for a particular thing (we're starting to build a base) and they get it as a reward for some particular mission (obviously the rarer it is ,the more dangerous the mission is). But some things litereally cost thousands of Thrones so I don't see how they can buy them without help from the Inquisitor which my group and I don't really find fun;it's like asking your dad for a new bike and hoping he'll say yes.
I guess I'll throw better equipped enemies and they can sell their gear or something.

Thanks for the answers,
B.Kaedran

I have been toying with an infamy/logistics stat like the one(s) in Only war and BC. Starting out with 1d5 and earning more as they complete missions. They can then use this stat to requisition equipment just like in those games.
I use the infamy modifiers for this so they will have a hard time actually getting really usefull stuff early on. also they can try to get things up their infamy bonus per mission. Things they get will have to be handed in after each mission.

My players are quite happy with this idea, even if it is hard to get the items they really want, but they get the feeling that its possible even at low levels. they also get their monthly money they can spend on ammo food etc.

I just let them get their earnings every 400 exp as described in the rulebook. I tried to control it once, and the constant whining and whinging, as well as the spiral-clastic-cluster-feck-a-thon that it was part of led me to think: I don't care. Let them sort their own cash out.

I just suspect that it's part stipulation, part old jobs and random jobs found as time goes by. it's just money appearing in their account magically when neither of those methods explain anything.

My players are rank 4 and able to afford such frivolities now as aux. nade launchers and bolt pistols- I personally enjoy being left out of it, they can work it out for themselves ("did we get paid?" "did you earn 400 exp?" "yes…" "then well done.")

I could do with working out a better purchasing system, as my players are armed to the teeth!

Jeans_Stealer said:

Full pay every 400 xp? That's two sessions (if you are using the simplified xp system)- no wonder your Rank 4 characters can afford bolt pistols! Yikes!

I hold my party to a monthly payday (which keeps them generally cash-poor- well, all but the noble-born cleric!), which they supplement with judicious ammounts of looting. I used to hate this (this ain't D&D!), but have come to accept it. Long warp trips (typically lasting 3 months or so) also provide a convient way for their income to 'catch up' with their expendatures.

-And when missions begin at the Tricorn Palace, I let the Acolytes attempt to requisition items from the Inquisition's armoury. I use a house-ruled system for this, with the chance that an item is available for their use being based on a sliding scale that incorporates Rank, Availability and Cost. If requisitioned items are not returned upon completion of a mission, the retail value of said item is automatically deducted from their stipend, unless they can provide a compelling justification for its loss in the official debriefings.

Adeptus-B said:

2 Things:

1) Why would anyone pay them to sit around on a ship? Unless it's the Inq. paying them, of course.

2) 3 Months? Where the hell do you send your people? Even with the slowest warp ships it will only take you 40 days of real-time travel to cross the entire sector. And then less than 24 hours will have passed in the warp. This is based on warp-travel info published in some ancient White Dwarf

For more Calixis trips based on these figures, check this little tool here.

Darth Smeg said:

1) If you subscribe to the view that pay comes from the Acolyte's previous employer, transfered to a blind account to facilitate a cover identity while they actually go on missions in service of the Emperor, then how would this employer (almost certainly based on another planet, with little or no contact with their 'employee') even know the now-Acolyte is on a ship? Even if they did know, their orders from the Inquisition would be to keep sending out a paycheck until they are told otherwise…

2) Both the module Baron Hopes (from Purge The Unclean ) and the Black Library novel Scourge The Heretic state that 'three months' is the standard travel time between Scintilla and Sepherus Secondus, so that's the standard I've been using. I'm guessing the 'ancient' source you are reffering to applied to 2nd Ed 40K ? When GW decided to turn the 'grimdark' up to 11 on subsequent editions, one of the changes was to portray warp travel as long and perilous rather than quick and easy- more 'Age of Sail', less Star Trek .

______________________

There is realy no doubt that the income system in DH is a clunky mess. Requiring PCs to keep track of indivividual coins is fine for games like D&D / Pathfinder , where loot is one of the primary motivating factors; but in games like Call of Cthulhu , Top Secret and, yes, Dark Heresy , where money should be an, at best, tertiary concern, it really bogs the game down. In systems like this, individual wealth should really be abstracted to a statistic, with situational modifiers. If they ever come out with a 2nd Edition of DH , I really hope they go that route…

Adeptus-B said:

The sensible thing to do would be to have him "disappear" - depending on the background it could mean anything from faking a change of profession (and home location) right up to faking death. The Inquisition will pay for everything. And the Inquisition will provide for its operatives, too.

Adeptus-B said:

An example from a 2E Codex that springs to mind is the pilgrim route from Ophelia VII to Terra that is supposed to take 9 years on average, yet the very same book also tells me that Bucharis needed just seven years to conquer fifty star systems with his fleet. Doesn't quite add up if you truly believe in warp passage durations being that stable. Same about all SoB Novices visiting Terra to take their vows in the Ecclesiarchal Palace. What the 2E Guard Codex told us about IG deployments did not change over the recent editions as well.
Incidentally … don't Psykers in Dark Heresy all go to Terra as well for the Soulbinding? Fairly sure I saw a passage on this when an Acolyte is found out to have psychic potential. How many years would that passage take if you just "add up" the months, considering galactic distances?

In the end, it comes down to individual perception and preferences, same as with any other detail where this potential for interpretation exists. Going with those 3 months is a perfectly valid option if you happen to like how it's been done in the two books you mentioned. If you want to do it differently … well, as Gav Thorpe once said, neither of these interpretations can be wrong.

Adeptus-B said:

Personally, I believe in the system Braddoc mentioned up there, though. It basically lowers the importance of personal wealth to some sort of "side project" for player characters to save for some special piece of equipment (granting the "achievement" feeling of the default system) whilst at the same time outsourcing basic mission needs to the Inquisition, which to me seems more realistic as well as a little simpler to keep track of.

I don't want to derail the thread too much with interplanetary travel times, but I'll just point out that

a) the times given in my link are just for the warp-jump(s). You need to travel a certain distance from the system to get to a safe Warp-zone. It was stated somewhere that even the fastest ships would not achieve even 0.01c during this in-system journey, which could then take weeks or even months to cover.

b) Dark Heresy is far from consistent in it's listing of travel times. The intro-adventure Illumination states "weeks of continuous shuddering motion" to get to Iocanthus, says that Malfi is "800 days standard" (whatever that might be, but 800 days is more than 2 years) from Scintilla, and that the Misericord is said to use a year for its round-trip of about 147 Light years, and that includes time taken in anchor while loading/unloading at its different stops (which can take weeks).

Perhaps the rules in Rogue Trader and the latest Navigator supplement will clear this up, but I somehow doubt it

As for the pilgrim ship, it's in the nature of these ships to make a convoluted journey tracing the path of some saint or other important person, stopping often to visit some significant place and to pick up more pilgrims. I'd say that the 9-year period comes not from traveling the warp so much as stopping to worship every rock Drusus once stepped on

Darth Smeg said:

As for the pilgrim ship, it's in the nature of these ships to make a convoluted journey tracing the path of some saint or other important person, stopping often to visit some significant place and to pick up more pilgrims. I'd say that the 9-year period comes not from traveling the warp so much as stopping to worship every rock Drusus once stepped on

Anyways, I think vast differences in travel (and Astropathic message speed!) durations have been around since … almost forever. Wouldn't be surprised if this was already in 1E Rogue Trader, even. The general explanation was always "The Warp did it" - in this case literally. In most stories about military campaigns and even the 6E rulebook's timeline, troop movements seem to happen rather fast, though.
By the way, what issue was that WD article in? I think I would be interested in reading more of it.

Sorry for the slight derailment!

I don't have the WD myselft, the data was posted on the old BI forums once. Then again on FFGs forums, but thanks to their recent changes I can no longer search for old threads. So I'm afraid the ol' discussions and their sources are lost to the Warp

Apparently it was WD 139/140, and a little google-fu tells me the info was basically:

Average time elapsed on a ship during warp travel:
1 LY = 2-6 minutes
5 LY = 7-30 minutes
10 LY = 14-60 minutes
50 LY = 1.25-4.75 hours
100 LY = 2.5-9.5 hours
500 LY = 12-48 hours
1000 LY = 1-4 days (24-96 hours)
5000 LY = 5-21 days

Average time elapsed in the material world during a warp travel jump
1 LY = 43-270 minutes
5 LY = 3.5-24 hours
10 LY = 7-48 hours
50 LY = 1.5-9 days
100 LY = 3-21 days
500 LY = 2-12 weeks
1000 LY = 1-6 months
5000 LY = 5-36 months

I extrapolated, put it into Excel, and voila!

Hey, I just remembered I did not properly thank you for looking up the issue number, so … thanks!