lurkeroutthere said:

Altering messages is the highest form of treason an Astropath can commit. Consider if that's something that is an appropriate method of circumventing a grounding.

Can you cite a source on that? I'm sure it's bad form and you don't want to get caught but I havn't seen anything that implies it's an extra especially bad thing.

Rule Zero Always applies: Don't Get Caught

lurkeroutthere said:

Astropaths are psykers. They are allowed to live only so long as they fulfill their function. For Astropaths, that function is accurate and timely communications. Any Astropath ******* with that is a pariah among them all since it places the entire Adeptus at risk.

As for not getting caught, remember that the Astropaths police their own. There are Astropaths out there every bit as good as, if not better than, the PC. Give them a reason to suspect you're putting the Adeptus at risk over your petty squabble and they'll burn you so fast the Inquisition won't even hear about it.

Right so i'm hearing "Don't get caught"

Basically any transgression in 40k can be punished with death, any psyker messing up can be punished with death. You can't legitimiately say "Altering messages is the highest form of treason an Astropath can commit" When: !) All crimes are pretty much punished with death 2) There are actually crimes punishable with faites worse then death like colluding with chaos.

I think the only part of this discussion we've missed so far is that a Rogue Trader Warrant is usually passed on by genetic line. So while your Senechal might very well be set up to take over the dynasty from a "business CEO" side but he's not going to inherit the Warrant. In fact trying to steal it will likely get the entire crew purged by the Inquisition or far more likely by the family who actually own that specific Warrant of Trade.

and on a slightly different note…I think you can definitely treat NPCs differently than PCs. While I understand the argument that we should treat all NPC/PCs the same, when it comes to undermining and eventually killing a character, if the RT is an NPC, its different than killing a friend at the table. You've always got to remember that you have to hang out with these people afterwards and in different settings and that's why I see a huge difference between outright killing/replacing an NPC vs doing the same to a PC.

HappyDaze said:

Also while I'm on the subject. Actually the whole point of astropath transcendent's is they are the rare especially powerful members of the Astropath ars Telepathica so it presumes that while there are other members of the Telepathica on their power level they are few and far between. Somewhere of on Holy Terra it's not like one of the revered masters somehow looks up from the meditation as soon as a Astropath transcribes and decrpts a messages wrong and says "I have felt a great disturbance in the force." But even if they did, which presumably they don't your assumption seems to be that the Astropathic choirs first and only response will be to undercut their member over an outsider. My counter thought is that being psykers who are supposedly second class citizens but absolutely vital for the empires survival, and unlike the great unwashed masses have actually been exposed to the emperors divinity would create a bit of a seige mentality. So no I don't think their first thought if they did somehow become aware of such a transgressionw ould be to burn one of their own to protect captain Spobody Necial. I think like any other old and storied organization in 40k they'd want to hush the matter up. Hell they might side with their member, but require they keep their actions very very discrete. Remember this is 40k after all, even more so then usual the bureaucracy exists to protect the bureaucracy.

Also I really don't see the Inquisition getting involved in internal affairs of succession for Rogue Trader dynasties. They've got enough on their plate and barely the agents to cover it all let alone full inquisitiros which is who it takes to tangle with a Rogue Trader. More then likely it would fall to either members of the Administratum, Navy, or the Arbites.

lurkeroutthere said:

Criminal thinking. Criminals always think they are more clever than others, yet so many of them get caught. Remember that you're not half as clever as you believe and that the establishment always has more minds to put to work should they have reason.

I'm seeing disturbing patterns here, I point out problems with your logic or statements you splutter "but but".

Put simply actually despite what cartoons told you the catch rate on crime even in a modern organized society like for example the United States is something like 40% for non violent crime, rising to 60% for murder en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearance_rate . So no I don't buy the obvious falsehood that the "establishment" always has enough resources to prevent, track, and punish crimes as it is at it's base not accurate. It gets even more questionable when you consider that Rogue Trader takes place in the 40k universe, which while technologically complex gets by with a justice and administrative system that could be describes most generously as feudal. So forgive me if I'm a bit skeptical of the system being an omnicient enough to catch message falsification done by a highly powered/trusted member on a space ship out in the hinterlands.

Basically the best prevention against this particular type of crime is going to come, as I pointed out, in the form of cypers that the astropath doesn't have the key to and must break them if they are able. If they are unable to break the cypher through fair means or foul then they cannot believably tamper with the message.

i never said that criminals are always caught, i said that the establishment always has greater resources. i too sense a dxisturbing trend in our conversations so perhaps it's best if we just agree to disagree since i tend to find your dismissive tone offensive

lurkeroutthere said:

…Whoa, my browser just redirected to 4chan…

EDIT:

Sorry, i had to. Anyhow, I think the problem is in perspective. From one side, the PCs, being center of the storyline and the only ones the group should be overly concerned with, are the most important part of the universe. Totally valid, and makes the "anything is possible" style of play possible and fun.

On the other hand, the Universe has established canon, and a gamemaster looses the ability to control the direction of the group the moment players are able to do anything they want. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but if there is a story arc and a plot at work then it isn't fair for one player in particular to be able to flout the rules and suffer no consequences because he's a PC. It is a grimdark universe, and death lurks around every corner.

Reality is, the gamemaster will likely have set up his campaign and the story thus far in such a way as to let the players know exactly where they stand in the galaxy. It could be on either side of the above coin, and neither is better then the other (I would know, having been both trapped and too happy to leave both realms of play style at one point or another!) only different. So, as I said before, talk to the GM. Talk to the other player. Sort it out as adults unhappy with a situation, and then work out a suitable solution in game. Perhaps the Rogue Trader receives a message from the Telepathica, while the Astropath receives a censure himself warning that while he has been protected by his years of honourable service, future transgressions will be met by them purging their ranks to save face. You get your stuff, but the rest of the group doesn't need to worry about your shiny new trump card.

player characters are certainly the focus of the stories told, but that doesnt make them the most important people in the universe by any means.

While the PCs are not the most important characters in the game universe (unless it's a High Lords of Terra campaign or somesuch), they should be important characters in the context of the campaign. 'Important' not strictly equating to 'powerful' though there is correlation.

I once played in an epic level D&D campaign with a number of interesting PCs. Who all may as well not shown up given how much the NPCs were doing in every single session. Yes, there are other powerful factions or individuals in game universes. But a GM who solely focuses on those powerful NPCs at the expense of the PCs is missing the point of gaming in my view. Which is to have a mutually enjoyable time.