Hello all,

I am playing an Astropath in a bi-weekly campaign.

Currently at Rank 4, my Astropath, Xin, is an…ecclectic woman. She has a goal of liberating the Emperor from the Golden Throne and letting his light shine across the Void, thus empowering the Empire (So she believes). On this way she seeks to siphon of resources to a secret little known planet, where a small group of Psykers/Astropaths and others have gathered to philosophically ponder how to create a better Imperium.

Thus she researches a lot. In her chambers she has alcoves with exotica - the backpart and spine of an Eldar princess with writings about Sigmar, Xeno armour and the Skeleton within, strands of cloned Orc muscle, a golden crown half melted from exposure to mad visions, plants with have fused with the ship itself etc. Some of it is controversial, but as the GM said "Its really the Rogue Trader who defines what is legal or not, and most of it, you are allowed by the Telepathica to have".

However…due to wearing a very controversial gown at a nobles' party on Footfallen, our ship was visited by an Inquisitor. He questioned Xin, with the Rogue Trader present, took notes and went to her chambers. Here he confiscated all her recordings of sound (Animals, screams, litanies, sex, prayer, laughter) which she had used to further her knowledge of sending messages across space.

He marked the Eldar spine and her own leg torn off by a Gene stealer and held in stasis as "Due further studies", and to be removed, and held by the Rogue Trader. After the Inquisitor leaves. The Rogue Traders strips EVERYTHING from Xin's quarters, and tells her that either he shoots her now or she never leaves his fleet of three ships, unless ordered by him, and is to be accompanied by four guards at all times. Also she is not allowed to conduct therapy sessions with the Rogue Trader's cousin, the Seneschal, whom receives the same punishment.

After this she mindlinked with the Seneschal, and they conducted a talk where they want to overthrow the Rogue Trader, so the Seneschal Lucas can inherit (Which he stands a good chance off). However - how to go by it?

Besmirch the Rogue Trader's name in the Expanse? Create riots? Make the Ecclesiarchy deny him blessings? Have him commit suicide? The Seneschal has a group of whisperers, spies, whom gathers information, and are good at insinuating themselves into various groups.

All ideas are welcome

Well as you are the astropath you can tell the RT almost anything and have him believe it. In other words you can tell him you got a message saying X when it really said Y or just make up a message out of whole cloth. Super easy to set him up that way, exactly what you want to do to him is entirely up to you and your imagination. But unless he has extra astropaths around that outrank you, you can feed him whatever story you want, you control all interstellar communications.

llsoth said:

This, actually. An Astropatch PC is the leader of the astropathic choir onboard a ship. He'll probably buy your lies completely, and wouldn't even go as far to look into things said otherwise. He might be a metagaming jerk and do so anyway, but that's another issue entirely.

Or just mind-control someone into shooting him.

An Inquisitor has no jurisdiction on Footfall. He would no doubt act like he has, but he really hasn't. I would have told him to get the hell off my ship. Via shuttle or out of the airlock, his choice. Bold and risky to rile big "I" like that, maybe, but not actually breaking any rules. But that's by the by, and what's done is done.

The Astropath is not alone, and is not entirely beholden to the Rogue Trader. Quietly remind him she has the backing of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, who are a lot more powerful and influential than his pathetic, piddling little mechant dynasty. Point out that such an organisation could make a lot of trouble for him, and having to do without interstellar communication would be the least of those troubles.

What was the Dress exactly?

You could spread the message across space that he's the inquisitions dog and favors them over his own crew at the first sign of trouble(basically just spread a slightly exaggerated version of the real story where he Bows down to the inquisitor and kisses his feet etc.). Your own rank and power within the Telepathica seems rather important if you want to start an insurrection.

It's hard to know exactly what to recommend without knowing what your gaming group is like.

Enlist your DM in your plan if you do betrayal.

My suggestion for the Astropath would be to grow up. Insurrection of this sort just proves that you are a renegade and should have been brought down even harder. Deal with being 'grounded' for awhile and earn back the trust of the RT rather than just assploding with hurt. Really, there's not much reason that he couldn't get you replaced by an NPC Astropath the next time he's back at Port Wander, so don't give him a reason to do it.

HappyDaze said:

Wow.

Where as my reading would be, the OP's Rogue Trader is being a ****. I mean really, taking all of another characters stuff, and them not allowing them to take part in any sort of ground based adventures is beyond the pale.

I would have strenuously objected OOC the second this was suggested, and walked out the instant it was implemented.

Thank you for all the input

First of all - My reasons for getting back at the Rogue Trader is not "I HATE YOU AND WANT YOU TO DIE!" It's just what my character would do - which is why I want to do it right, without it being bad RPG.

The dress was low cut, exposing shoulders and some leg (No breasts or bottom showing…) And with sown in small mirrors. Xin's reasoning was to allude to people seing themselves for what they are, and her defense when the Inquisitor asked was that it was protection; mirrors reflecting things away.

Being a first time player I didn't know exactly how powerful/what the Telepathica could/can do, but it seems they also have some weight to throw around, even if they are not one of the *** four Adeptus.

It seems that spreading slander, rapporting to the Telepathica, and sowing discontent is the way forward. My main issue is also being restricted and having my things confiscated. It's fair enough that the RG wants to punish me for financial losses, but the punishment seems….really harsh.

If I do send a message to the Telepathica, what would they reasonably do? Put pressure on the RG family to return my stuff? Nothing? Replace me?

ROF83 said:

ROF83 said:

ROF83 said:

First question, is the RT a PC or NPC? Obviously, if it's an NPC, then go through with the assassination / change of power with full force once you have the leverage. Meaning, wait for the right time to strike, which could be months to even years down the road. If it's a PC………….. for me as a GM I hate PC vs PC conflict (unless I engineered it that way ). A little sporty competition / rough housing is okay, but conflict with intent to kill not so much. Do what has to be done, whether that is kill the PC (highly discouraged IMHO) or just get enough power to convince him to not mess with you again (highly encouraged).

With all that said, if the items confiscated by the Inquisition were "Heretical" in nature, with your character having the belief to liberate the Emperor from his Golden Throne, has a secret sect worshiping her cause, with a secret hideout, I would er on the side of caution and secretly sow doubt. This would bid you more time to prepare for your next move without it looking like retaliation, all the while allowing the RT to feel comfortable around you once again and dropping his guard. I wouldn't want anyone snooping too closely if I had these hidden agendas.

Now if the stuff was Xeno, you can definitely get it back, because what RT doesn't have Xeno trophies, weapons, equipment, etc., in their quarters too.

ROF83 said:

Astropaths have allot of power in the right place, while in others not so much. Do read page 309 RT "Communication", and pay attention to the sentence "privacy of their sanctums on worlds and aboard ships are sacrosanct areas made inviolable by Imperial Law." Now, what power does the RT have? Absolute power when he is away from the Imperium. But once he is back in Imperial Space, he has no more power than a Free Merchant. So this means he "can" walk into and take stuff from the Astropaths quarters if the ship is in the Koronus Expanse (and depending on what he did he would be punished later when entering Imperial Space), but if he tried that stunt in the Calaxis Sector, all your Astropath would have to do is report him to the local Imperial Navy and/or the Astropath Guild, and BAM!, embargo's, sanctions, etc, would be placed upon him/her, their Dynasty, for violating Imperial Law. And depending on what he did or took, the Navy could be after him/her or even the Inquisition, for investigation. Why do you ask? Because I'm sure the Navy and the Inquisition have certain codes or phrases placed in the recording machines or the minds of highest ranking Astropaths that are of the utmost secrecy. Would anyone really know what they found? Probably not, but the risk, IMHO, would be too high to ignore.

If you sent a message to the Telepathica, it would depend on several things. 1) Were the items Heretical in Nature 2) Were they just Xeno ornaments 3) What did the Inquisitor report back and to whom 4) Do you have powerful allies in the Astra Telepathica 5) Are these allies believing in your secret cause?

If you answered yes to questions 2, 4 and 5, then reporting the incident would be a great benefit to you and your plans. If you answered yes to 1, 4 and 5, then maybe reporting it back would be beneficial, and in that regards you would have to weigh the risk of answering 3. If you just answered yes to question 1, then it probably would not be a good idea to report the incident, and replacing you might be the least of your worries.

Of course, depending on how powerful the RT Dynasty is and how trust worthy the RT's word is (like is he a known Pirate), you could always twist the facts to suit your needs, and/or even exaggerate the incident. Like reporting that the RT entered the Astra Telepathica recording room, took several recording machines and other items that you weren't sure on what they are, and is refusing to give them back. Obviously, when the Imperial Navy/Astro Telepathica guild hear of this, they would probably tell the Dynasty to force the RT to return all items confiscated by the RT to the highest ranking Astropath (the PC) on the ship or face an inquiry, embargo, sanctions, etc.

Anyhoot, best of luck to you and your group.

ROF83 said:

Ok there must be more to it here, as based on fluff (or cannon if you consider other FFG 40k adventures) that dress would not have even raised anyones notice. Based on other adventures from FFG such as Purge the Unclean that dress would be seen as VERY conservative.

Plynkes said:

Um, I do have a wonder here. An Inquisitor "has unilateral authority throughout the Imperium". The validity of this statement is iffy, but they like to ACT like it were true. While I can see that Footfall might be a bit of a stretch, I would think that the Rogue Trader's ship would qualify as sovereign territory of His Imperium, as the people who supplied the ship, empowered the RT, and are supposed to benefit from said Lord-Captain's efforts. In that case, ON THE SHIP, he's an Inquisitor, again, and might have all of his authority. If this isn't true, I might still try to scare my players into thinking it is, just so they feel there might be a smidge of oversight. Otherwise, they leave the Imperium, and never feel a strong need to come back, and that God Emperor is just faction (this is more likely a feeling the CHARACTERS will have, and it might play into their characters.)

So, you might have to/be able to choose to let the Inquisitor in, or not, but once you do, I think you're inviting his power into your house, for good or ill. Once inside, he's in the Imperium, again (assuming you are in good standing), and can do what he does. He's still in a physically precarious place, so he might not act like an arse, but he still COULD.

Yea, I'd foresee someone blowing an Inquisitor out of an airlock in one of my games, and later figuring out the repercussions of said action. Might be days, years, decades, or even centuries later, and depending on how the situation looked/was discovered, would determine how much repercussion was enacted. Any smart Inquisitor (that isn't on the run) would have some henchmen lingering around knowing where he was going. Like say for example, you made it look like a freak accident, with not only the Inquisitor dying but also several hundred crew hands, and your ship is know for said accidents in the past, then yea, it could almost be pulled off with very little retaliation brought back on you or your dynasty (like maybe just an inquiry with the Inquisition marking your dynasty as dubious in nature). But on the other hand, if it was just the Inquisitor with his entourage he brought on board dying/disappearing, then that is probably all the information the Inquisition needs to place your head on a platter. I mean heck, they don't even have to come after you. They can go after your dynasty in Imperial space and seize all your assets if they wanted.

Anyhoot, as ROF83 stated, something more should have brought the Inquisitor to your character's attention. Probably that secret sect you have, or it could have been something you said while in his presence, and since you are a significant person he just wanted a follow up. Maybe he was there all along to get information about you, and your gown was just his excuse to the RT to enter your quarters. But this discussion is not about what should/shouldn't have happened, but what can you do to further your agenda.

You commented that the RT wants to punish you for Financial losses. Does this imply that he knows you are syphoning funds? If so, then he might even know where your hideout is. And if the RT knows, then it is possible the Inquisition knows too. Paranoia is always the best practice.

Outside the Imperium, an Inquisitor has precisely as much power as he or she has personally or through allies. The rosette by itself means nothing to non-Imperials if it is not backed up with real power.

For example, the dynasty my sensechal is in is playing through lure of the expanse. To cut a long story short, we robbed a rival rogue trader in Footfall who turned out to be an Inquisitor (may or may not still be an actual rogue trader as well). As in looted his trophy room and took his rosette. Which we then sold at the auction in public. What happens? *Someone* tries to shoot the rogue trader with a long-las afterwards. No charges of heresy, no immediate execution.

But anyway. From the admittedly limited information available here, it sounds like the Inquisitor over-reacted and the Rogue Trader went along with it. So why not a little skullduggery to change the balance of power?

If the Rogue Trader is an NPC, go wild. Gather dirt on him, lead him into situations you've rigged in your favour. You control the flow of information in and out of the ship when in the warp, and the seneschal should have the rest pinned down. Be the eyes and ears of the Rogue Trader - and let him know only what you want him to know. Make sure his enemies and hired murderers know where and when he's vulnerable. Turn his allies against him (but not the dynasty if you can help it). If he's a PC, much the same but take care if the player is a metagamer or is likely to get upset at his character getting assassinated.

Decessor said:

Killing an Inquisitor….. stealing his rosette ….. A slight difference in situations there. I am not your GM, and so I can not stipulate what brought about this turn of events. But from my perspective as a GM, the Inquisitor might of been doing something dubious in nature, hence why you were not hunted down for attacking an Inquisitors retinue/place of lodging (meaning the ship and its crew). Taking a Rosette is a very dangerous thing to do, but why would an Inquisitor leave it out of his immediate possession in the first place? No idea, other than that he might of been doing some shady business. Which is exactly why I would have an Inquisitor at Footfall too. Congrats to you and your crew though for pulling off such a splendid raid.

And I was wrong earlier. It was llsoth who asked if there was more to it, not ROF83. My apologies. Anyhoot, I'm sure ROF83 has no more information than what is already provided. He's not the GM, and I know from experience that allot of stuff goes on behind the scenes in most games.

As a side note on the Inquisitor thing:

An Inquisitor DOES have theoretically unlimited, unrestrained authority over humanity. This, however, is much like the fact that every ship of Mankind and every planet or space station must provide a tithe: when there is no military presence around, it becomes more of a question of whether or not an inquisitor can muster the strength to punish transgressors.

At Footfall, I would be VERY wary. This is JUST outside of the grander reach of the Imperium, and if an Inquisitor saw fit to go there you can be fairly certain that he has an in depth network of support staff to ensure he doesn't just get blown out the air lock. Just because there isn't a large fleet presence, doesn't mean the Inquisitor didn't show up with a letter from an Admiral to the Marshall saying if this Inquisitor is unhappy with the service you provided, I shall annihilate you by lance and torpedo. Such a threat would always bear teeth coming from a member of the Ordos, and it would be a rather great deal easier to give the Inquisitor the support of the Footfallen military then risk even potential annihilation.

Also, the Telepthica is an Adeptus. The full title is the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and they are responsible for the entire authorized psychic presence in the Imperium, from Sanctionite to Primaris Inquisitors. They have some sway.

Anyways…

Honestly, chat about it OOC with your GM first and foremost. Regardless of what your character would do, if your GM won't act as a mediator when people get irritated, the game will come to a table-flipping halt with no fun for anyone. If your GM is on board, then talk to the other player. Do this in game even, by receiving a demand from your adepta for the immediate return of all confiscated items and the issue of a formal apology. See how he reacts. Likely, he will treat your character like she's got teeth, which is really all you should be gunning for.

Decessor said:

BangBangTequila said:

There is no guarantee that the AAT will support the character in this manner. Asking them to do so might get the Astropath direct censure from the AAT (and they can easily exert as much power over a psyker as the Inquisition) if they too see his/her actions as heretical - and that's far more likely if the character continues to act up against the RT. If you make the AAT look bad by acting like anything less than a total professional despite some hasty reactions from a client (even the least of RTs are still Peers of the Imperium, and thus big fish), then you won't last long with them. Demonstrate loyalty, restraint, and contrition - these are values expected from a servant to his master.

HappyDaze said:

Sometimes this is a good form of metagaming. Also it's a polite way of telling this player that it's at least potentially impolite to kill the other character if it is a player character.

It's up to the DM to encourage or discourage behavior.

If my players wanted to spend a session killing Hobo's I'd have agents of the Chaos gods try to recruit them depending on their motivation. (Love of the Feeling of power over others(It's not important that I kill them it's important than I can),Love of Destruction(look at how they splatter LOL), Joy of Combat(Let's kill the soggy bottom gang these hobo's are BORING),Sadism(Stop shooting them in the head I want to do this more… slowly))

Or if it was in the nobles district I'd have Arbites show up, kick their ass, confiscate their weapons, impose HUGE fines. And throw them in jail a few years. They might even die.

In a more shady area they may have inadvertantly killed the mother of the local crime lord. the mother was a hobo who preferred to be homeless because of pride. "I won't take no money from my son" or because she knows what her son does and has principles.

I need to hurry up and get a job so I can run my game >.>

Cultadium said:

The "bad metagaming" is in treating a character differently based on whether the character is a PC or an NPC. For a player to have his PC treat an NPC far worse (or even far better) than he would treat the same character if that character were a PC is never good for the game. It's just as bad when the GM has NPCs treat PCs differently for no reason other than them being PCs.

Part of my thought process is I strongly believe the Capt. slot in rogue trader should belong to a player character.

It's too much fun to play as one. To delegate it to an NPC seems like taking away potential fun from your players.

Well if no one stepped up to play the part (either through creating a RT or just taking up the mantle via another class), then the GM is somewhat forced to. I haven't had a group not have an RT in it yet. Though to honest, I would encourage one or more players to be the head of the Dynasty and be the Cpt of the ship, instead of giving it to an NPC that I would have to play. No matter what though, I always have all of my players have equal power/footing/status on the ship and, to an extent, on dealings within the Dynasty. It's has also been like a council of peers conversing with each other, debating on the next course of action to take to benefit the group as a whole. But that is just how my groups have worked, so I can't vouche if it's compatible for other groups.

HappyDaze said:

Perhaps I should make my logic more clear. The vast majority of the time, I try to pick the most plausible course of action for my own PCs from their in-game knowledge, personality and situation, regardless of whether this will screw themself over or not.

When having to choose between plausible options while playing a PC, I prefer to avoid ones that will completely ruin other PCs unless the tone of the campaign suits that action. Why? PCs are the sole character of another player. Yes. there is a metagaming element but I'm not going to deliberately ruin someone else's fun for the sake of a play in character. That said, if the GM and other players are fine with skullduggery, then it's fair game.

Nameless2all said:

I've played in a campaign where the rogue trader player changed characters to an astropath. We muddled on for quite some time without an active rogue trader which hampered the ability of the dynasty to make major decisions. Eventually the player and GM agreed to let the title fall to the seneschal player (being a blood relative of the rogue trader).

As an astropath you have access to and ability to alter messages in transit. However many of those same messages are going to be in a cypher which you will have to break and then re-encode so it passes muster. Not impossible just something to think about.