If I have Dragonpit in play when my opponent plays or puts into play a character of 3 STR or less, can I play Pyrophobia to bounce the character? I think the answer should be yes, because Dragonpit's passive effect goes off right after the character enters play, and then Pyrophobia responds to the character's STR dropping below 3 -- just want to make sure. Thanks!

Yes, you can do that: the STR change did happen and it makes passives initiate and allows to trigger responses.

Just curious, how this scenario differs from:

Winterfell Castle + Bolton Refugee + The Dreadfort = card draw?

My question comes from the reasoning that if the Bolton Refugee comes into play as a 3 STR character, wouldn't an opponent's character simply come in a 2 STR in the given scenario?

If you are saying that clearly the character's STR was lowered, because it is a printed STR 3 - and I would agree with you on that - however, for you to respond to it, would imply (at least to me) that the character entered play as a 3 STR character. Which doesn't sound right at all when compared to the above Bolton scenario. What am I missing between these two?

Note the above scenario is different than if there were existing 3 STR characters on the board and then you marshalled in Dragonpit. Then I completely understand this interaction because it lowers the existing characters STR, allowing for a response.

Slothgodfather said:

The point is, you look to see if the Response's play restrictions are met when you go to trigger the Response.

Toss Meera into the mix - she comes out of shadows as an Any Phase action while Dragonpit is in play. Does her STR get lowered before or after she blanks a card? If before, can pyrophobia bounce her before she can execute the blank? I think she can still get the blank off, but I'd love to be wrong!

Even if Meera's blanking effect was a response or a passive, she could get it off before going to hand (even if Pyrophobia was used before, because she would be moribund). As it is (her blanking effect is part of the resolution step for her Any Phase ability), I'm not even sure she cannot escape the STR reduction by blanking the Dragonpit.

We know that she has to come into play fully before she blanks anything. That is, after all, why she cannot choose to blank an "immune to character abilities" card like The Red Viper. So, since she is fully in play, her STR will technically be lowered by any constant/lasting effects.

However, even though constant/lasting effects may be applied, there is absolutely no place in the timing structure for Responses or passives between the part before and after the "then" in her ability. So it's not like you can play any card to take advantage of the fact that the constant/lasting effects have been applied before she completes the effect that brought her into play.

As always, unless the card says "save" or "cancel," there is no way for you to interrupt Meera's resolution and initiate an effect before she fully resolves, no matter what potential Response opportunities are created by the "pre-then" part of her effect. (And as a "then" effect, cancels are only going to be partially applicable.)

So, if Meera comes into play using her ability and immediately blanks the Dragonpit, her STR has been lowered all the same (however briefly) and Pyrophobia can be used to bounce her (though she still escapes any passive terminal effects)?

Khudzlin said:

Since the Response is "after a character's STR is reduced…," I'd say that the -X STR modifier must be applicable at the time the Response is played. If the Response were worded "after a character's STR has been reduced…," I'd think that losing the modifier before triggering the response would be OK.

Effectively, Pyrophobia requires 2 things when it is played: the character must have a currently valid "-X STR" modifier that was applied for the first time during that action window, and the character's current STR is 2 or less. If either of those are not true when the Response is played, you cannot actually meet the play restrictions and trigger the Response.

Perhaps this is basic, but can you clarify why Meera would escape a passive terminal effect. If she comes out of shadows via her any phase action while Dragonpit is in play and Threat from the North is revealed, why doesn't that discard her in the brief instant her STR is 0?

ktom said:

Vaapad said:

"Kill at 0" is a passive effect, not a continuous one. It has to have a place to initiate before it can kill anything. (If it didn't have to initiate, you'd never have a possibility of saving - even with the rare save that also removes it from the terminal state - because saves must come between an initiating and a resolution.) That initiation cannot come during the resolution of Meera's entire effect. It has to wait until her effect is fully resolved before it can initiate. So even though her STR might go to 0 when she comes into play, blanking the location might bring her back above 0 before passive effects can initiate. So when you get to initiating the passive effect, and you look at Meera's current STR, it is more than 0, so the passive "kill at 0" isn't applicable.

Thanks Ktom.

ktom said: