Hi guys,

don't know if my topic is useful as I didn't played the game yet, but just read the rules.

(Please note I was a big videogame X-wing series player, as most of you were )

->

My question is follow :

Is it possible to recharge the shield? After a first rulebook reading, I didn't had the impression.

If you remember the simulation of the X-wing series well, you remember that you could modify the level of power between :

- engines
- shield
- laser

So, one of the usual manoeuvre used during a fight, when critically hit, was to remove all the power from the laser, redirected it all in the shield !

To get your shield back, even if your ship was nearly destroyed.

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-> New action :

"Recharge your shield token. You can not use your principal weapon this turn anymore."

It would be available for all shielded fighters. Don't know in the balance of the game if it should bring back 'one' shield token, or all of it.

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If the rule already exists, not problem then

Shade666

r2d2 is the only way to recharge shields at the moment. He is a character upgrade card and only for rebel armies.

fiddybucks said:

Minor (mostly inconsequential) correction: R2-D2 is an [astromech droid icon] upgrade card that can be used by any ship that has the corresponding upgrade icon in its upgrade bar. Currently, only rebel ships have the icon, but in the future there could potentially be an Imperial ship that could use him(or a new faction, like Republic).

oki, thanks for the info,

anyway, to stay more lore friendly, I will introduce the Action "Redirecting laser powers into the shields"

effect : Figther get one of his lost 'shield token' back, but can't use his principal weapon this turn.

(it is a non-sense that only the specific R2-D2 unit let a fighter recharing his shields)

Keep playing !

Mike

shade666 said:

Have fun at any tournaments you go to

shade666 said:

That's too powerful as a generic action. Perhaps as a Skill card or a different astromech, with a cost.

Still, it is a delicate balance to allow ships to regenerate shields easily, as it then makes them much more powerful against ships that cannot.

dvang said:

Agree that this would be WAY too powerful as a generic action. R2D2 costs 4 points to do this on ONE ship. Every ship with shields would need a serious point increase if they could do this as a regular action. Even an upgrade card would need to be more than R2D2 because he only allows it when doing a green maneuver. This would be ridiculously unbalanced, IMO.

Jim

I agree. This would be much too powerful! I understand that X-wing should be able to do this, but it is not practical in this game. I have a feeling that you haven't played the game much (if at all) if you are planning on trying this.

Roy

As a house rule you could probably test it, but one shield for one attack is too OP.

Maybe one shield and no attacks for two turns?

Also try to test:

Discard two shield tokens, this x-wing adds 1 to it's attack until end of round.

I love this idea, but as an upgrade card- in the command/elite slot (or whatever its named… cant remember)

Upgrade Name - Shield Boost

Action: You divert all weapons power temporarily to your shields, roll one defense die on evade or focus recharge 1 shield token. This pilot may notake any attacks during his next combat phase

Cost: 4 or 5 (im leaning towards 4 because pf the 3/8 chance to not do ot and the loss of attack either way)

Well I send you the question back, guys : try this action in-game.

I think that this is 'all' the trick :

it looks powerful. But it isn't

The point is that the alliance will usually always be overnumbered by the imperial, so even if the rebel starships can boost their shields, they will always be overnumbered :

- so if t he rebel player choose to recharge 1 token (it is only 1 !) what are the consequences?

-> first, for one turn, the rebel player can't be agressive with his starfighter : tacticly, the rebel ship 'loose' one turn . And Hell, that is a important advantage for the oppponent !
The point of the game is to destroy quick and fast your ennemi. Taking back your shield doesn't go that way.

-> second, not only you cant use your ship to attack, but the ennemi you didn't attack/destroy this turn, him, will still focus on your fighters and try to get you down!
So maybe one of your fighter gets a token back. But meanwhile you will loose another of your ship.

-> third, the only token you got back , can be lost the same turn by assaulting opponents ! So you loose one turn for a +1 shield, while maybe this same turn opponent fighters will focus on you and attack you at -2 or -3.

-> fourth, it is all about making the good choice. If you are 'afraid' for your ship, you will try to get a shield token back. Sometimes it is the thing that looks correct…but it could disadvantage you because you wont 'dare' keep fighting !
It is all about 'when do I attack, when do I defend'.

More the player have choices, more variety you have in your games…!

To resume, the idea is that : your ship lost one turn, while your opponent stay focusing on attacking !

Boosting your shield may 'sound' really nice, and actually I am sure good players can have great benefits from it, BUT the dynamic of the game doesn't make this action SO powerful at all.

Mike

ArcticSnake said:

I like the idea..!

My take into implementing recharging shields in this game would be the following:

First of all, all fighter in this game should have access to the "Target Lock" action. Imperial TIE Fighters and Interceptors need this so its firepower could match the now shield-regenerating Rebel fighters. Every fighters it is supposed to have a targetting computer, so fluffwise there is no reason for negating this action to TIE Fighters and Interceptors, besides faction balance and avoiding the action bar of the TIE Interceptor becoming too crowded.

Then, I would add the "Shield Recharge" action to all shield-capable starfighter. This action would read: "Instead of attacking this turn, gain an Stress token and roll a Defense dice. On a Evade result, recover a Shield token."

The gaining of a Stress token it is mean to give a reason to that Rebel craft to do a green maneuver next round, representing diverting power from its engines to its laser cannons (and thus regaining the ability to shoot). Fluffwise, you can justify the pilot getting "Stressed" with him going nearly hysterical flipping up and down the switches of the power control panel, or the performance of the inertial compensator being decreased as a result of the sudden change in the power distribution, or whatever!

To avoid recharging two Shield Tokens in the same round, the text in the "R2-D2" upgrade card should be changed. I would wo go for something like: "When doing a Shield Recharge action, all Focus results in the Defense roll are changed to an Evade result".

Agrivar said:

I understand your goal, but clearly you need to put way more thought into your house rule.

You've given a clear cut boost to the Imps by giving all their ships the target lock ability, but your Shield Recharge actions is worthless. You are asking a player to one give up an action, give up an attack, take a stress token, for a a 50/50ish shot at getting one Shield Token back? I'm sorry but that would be the most worthless action to take and would in no possible way validate upping the Imp offense the way you have.

Seems like we have an imperial spy in our midst.

Very interesting idea.

shade666 said:

You are not necessarily shooting every turn. The Imperial player actually should be maneuvering to avoid giving the Rebel player a shot at their ships. You are rewarding the Rebel player for not having anything to shoot, as they can freely use their action to regenerate their shields. Sometimes, the Rebel player needs to maneuver to avoid giving the Imperial player shots, which could also mean he himself has no shots. Again, rewarding the Rebel player. If you think about the Imperial player not having any shots on the Rebel player, or all his shots missing, then the shield isn't immediately lost. As well, even if it is lost in the same turn, that's still one more hit that the Imperial ships had to score. TIE fighters tend to struggle to score hits as it is, with their 2 attack dice. You are allowing the Rebel ships to heal themselves one per round for free. Remember, R2-D2 costs 4 points and only allows that in certain circumstances (perform a green maneuver). Granted, R2-D2 still allows the ship to shoot as an action. But, R2-D2 is also unique and so limited to a single ship per side.

I don't have a problem allowing the regeneration of shields per-se, but there needs to be a game balance since not every ship has shields.

I might suggest:

An astromech or skill, costing 2.

Action: regenerate 1 shield (if the piloted ship has shields). This ship also cannot shoot in the combat step.

So, this seems fairly balanced. It's restricted to certain ships, whether rebel-only (astromechs) or just skilled pilots (skill). It costs not too large an amount, but some. Lastly, it uses up a valuable action. R2-D2, although more expensive, is still worthwhile as he does not use up an action nor does he prevent shooting. Personally, I like the skill option better. It will allow Imperial pilots to use it, and shows that skilled pilots only can effectively redirect power to replenish their shields.

Dvang : Of course a player recharging his shield could just… recharging his shield, without any issue I wish the best for all pilots out there

BUT the point is that if you recharge, you dont do something else.

That is all to that matters. Both sides know the rules.

-> We could develop some reasons to explain that, no, recharging shield, it is not an advantage. As we could develop some reasons to say that, yes, recharging shield, it is an advantage.

If that is the case, people giving + and -, then usually the rule is good, it means it is balanced

If you are afraid for the balance of the game for the Imperial player :

- some imperial starfighters have shields too . And that is important. Why? See next point.

- usually, imperials have more starfighters on map . So the recharging shielded rebels starfigther 'could' be each turn targeted and harassed by AT LEAST one imperia l. (again, it is theorical)

- MOST OF ALL : Imperial could then have fleet combining : 'more' starfighters than rebels , AND some shielded. So that becomes really annoying for the rebel fleet, and keep the balance Should the x-wings focus on the number of hostile targets, or focus on the shielded TIE first to be sure they dont recharge ?

So no : recharging shield is not 'only' a rebel upgrade. Rebel have only shielded starfighters. Imperial have a few, but have more starfighters.

For the moment, the dynamic of the shield is nothing else than "more health point". We could say that 4 Hull + 2 Shields, it just means a 'resistance' of 6.

Shield should become dynamic. That a starfighter with 1 Hull, can still get 1 or 2 shield level back to survive. It give more 'colour' to the strategy and possibilities used by players.

A big beef I have with recharging shields is the comparison with current repair abilities. So far we have Determination, R2-D2, and R5-D8.

R2-D2 is the most expensive at a cost of 4 -- and for good reason! Reacharging shields is not just about getting "hit points" back. Shields in this game really do act as shields because they protect you from critical hits. That is a HUGE boon, in my opinion. R2-D2 let's you recharge shields by taking a green maneuver. There's no chance involved, it's just execute a green maneuver and get a shield token restored.

Let's look at the other two repairers. R5-D8 and Determination are cheaper (at 3 and 1, respectively) but there is good reason for them being cheaper. First, they don't have the benefit that restoring a shield has. If you're hit and you're removing damage cards, the next hit you take could be a critical hit and you can't block it (excepting Determination, and R5 Astromech). Secondly, there is no guarantee that you will be able to remove any damage. For R5-D8, you have to roll an [evade] or a [focus]. That's a 5/8 chance of repairing damage. Good, but not perfect. Determination technically always works, just like R2-D2, but if you consider that of all your critical hits, only 8/33 can be negated with Determination, the odds don't look too good.

If R5-D8 costs 3, his action doesn't always work ,and doesn't get the benefit of repairing shields, how can you allow shields to recharge with a 2-cost upgrade with an action that only requires you to skip your attack? In my estimation, such a card should cost at least 4. With R2-D2, the tradeoff is your opponent is pretty sure you'll execute a green maneuver. The trade-off with this one is your opponent knows your ship won't be able to fire if it repairs a shield.

So after all that ranting, I guess I really don't have a problem with repairing shields, but I think that a shield-recharge action needs to be expensive, otherwise it makes the existing damage-cancelling upgrades obsolete. And I really wanted to emphasize how big repairing a shield is when you consider that they shield you from critical hits.

That's why I suggested two turns with no attacks. It should be worded as, Your Primary weapon value is treated as 0 for this turn until the end of the following turn. You may also not attack until then. Also the shield has to recharge at the end of the round not during the action phase.

That should approximate how long the shields recharge in the old X-Wing/TIE fighter games.

2 turns not attacking is too long for the dynamic of the game. And again, restoring 1 shield token doesnt worth 2 turns not attacking with your starfighter.

But if your idea is "2 turns no attacking to recharge completely the shields" I got the point. But then? Why do you complicate the rule for the same effect?

If a player wants to recharge 2 shield tokens, well, he does the actions two times, on two turns, so : for two turns he doesn't attack. Same same.

For the moment we use my house rule on table, and well we have pretty much nice fights. Honestly, recharing the shield has been epic on 1 of the 5 skirmish we did. In one case, the rebel player just 'saved his ass' even harassed by (bad) lasers hits. The rest of the time, the rule has been useful, but never 'decisive' for the fight or unbalanced.

By the way, I play more the imperials

Of course, knowing from the beginning that the starfighters can rechargetheir shields, you also play differently a bit.

Mike

I agree with Budgernaught. I just think that, compared to the existing cards and dynamics, a 'free' recharge is just over the top and out of balance.

So a rebel ship with R2-D2 that does a green maneuver recharges 2 shields a turn.

Every battle I have played involved a lot of maneuvering. Especially as the number of ships diminishes. In general, shooting happens maybe 1 out of every 3 rounds (after the first two rounds). That's two rounds of free shield regeneration for the rebels (primarily).

If you add in a Y-Wing causing Ties to drift and therefore lose a target, then it makes it more possible to get an X-wing free enough to spend a turn or two to recharge shields.

Lastly, of course, is the fact that this is a game that is intended to be fairly simple and quick. You don't want to add too much complexity, nor too much extra tracking.

I dont get it

this house rule isn't free.

It uses your Action . And you can't fire your lasers for a turn.

This to get in exchange +1 shield token only.

It is nor complicate, nor advantageous…

Anyway, enjoy the game Let's not debate longer about this, I was just presenting a house rule about the game that should be consider in a futur revision of the rules (about the 'idea' of recharging the shields, not about the way i play it)

Mike

dvang said:

dvang said:

In addition to Budgernaut's excellent points, the quote above is a big reason I am against shield recharge on all shielded ships. It becomes a no-brainer, and will really draw out these dogfights in a negative, "I-wish-this-would-just-end!" sort of way.

Yup but Budgernaut didn't say it was not a decent rule. He said it misses something, because the effect is free (in xp) but had anyway a trade-off, as for example R2D2, and that was good.

And I disagree when you guys are saying people 'would' just keep recharging. We played it We don't. Because again, you don't do something else and that is a penality.

Anyway I invite you guys to play this on table. Why, because there is a slight difference between Droids (R2D2-like cards) and the shield recharging house rule :

- the fact that most of the XP cards you can buy for your starfighters are "only" for Rebellion starfighters. (droids)

But the house rules applies to "every faction".

That is why for me, if the house rule needed a trade-off (no attack for one turn), it didn't require a specifc xp depense -> BOTH players use the same rule.

To make it short, yes, all rebellion starfighters may all have shields. But imperials vessel are overnumbered and their best fighters are shielded too (tie advanced or defenders for example) and that makes them real pain in the ass

optional effect: but if it looks much too 'strong' we could limitate in some case the recharging effect. For example if a ennemy fighter is on range (but how much?) recharging your shield give you also a stress token . Just an idea. To make the shield recharging more a "real choice to make" option.

Mike