alpha5099 said:

yub yub

dboeren said:

I really don't get this argument about deckbuilding. If anything, I think that this approach is even more challenging than the standard method where you get to pick every card. You have to balance so much more when picking cards by pod like this, you can't just pack your deck with the perfect mix you have to take the rough with the smooth and play around it. Deckbuilding may be quicker, but I think it will actually take more thought and skill (both when deckbuilding and playing).

Now if that's too difficult for you and you'd rather stick with the traditional deckbuilding approach then that's fine too.

alpha5099 said:

Definitely want the option to build an Ewok deck.

ChaosChild said:

(Continuing to derail this thread so that it'll just be about Ewoks.)

Assuming Ewoks do appear in the game (and I'd be surprised if there weren't at least one or two, they're an iconic race from the Original Trilogy and fit easily on the Light Side), I'd be interested which faction they could end up in. Jedi is obviously right out.* Smugglers and Spies might fit, as that seems like sort of the hodge podge faction of people and races that don't fit elsewhere, but they certainly aren't either smugglers or spies. I could see them perhaps showing up as members of the Rebel Alliance; they certainly played a large role in the Battle of Endor.

Any Ewok card should absolutely have some absurd ability that makes them completely outclass scout troopers and AT-STs.

* Unless they give us this guy: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unidentified_Ewok_Jedi

El Chino said:

Still doesn't work for the Rancor vs. Redemption scenario, which remains the iconic example. Unless it happens to be a particularly tactical Rancor, with a bit of political pull. But I find that a murky prospect at best.

dboeren said:

I don't know, certanly the pod building gives you less distinct choices but I don't think that means the choices are going to necessarily be any less important or difficult. Sure a casual player will be able to put together a deck quickly but the hardcore player will have extremely difficult choices of evaluating cards as a group instead of individually. Personally I think the deck building for Star Wars will be even more challenging than a normal card game because you are going to be forced to make tradeoffs in every deck you construct.

alpha5099 said:

But how will we pay for Ewok cards? The Ewok economy is based entirely on hugs! Maybe there's a light and dark side neutral separation like Warhammer? The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that Ewoks are highly intelligent tacticians. I mean, they built all those Swiss Family Robinson traps right near the Imperial base, biding their time until the perfect moment to strike. Understanding the damage amplification effects of blunt objects on stormtrooper armor. Stealing speeder bikes with ease like a member of the French Resistance. Ewoks would make perfect trainers of the rebel alliance military in commando's and commandon'ts.

ChaosChild said:

I would like to echo this whole-heartedly!

On the one hand, "traditional" deckbuilding is so much simpler than this option of pod-building, as you only have the decision "does this card fit into my deck?" when building it, so it becomes a series of single choices. But on the other, pod-building is very very similar to "traditional" deckbuilding that takes account of card synergies. It is very early in the morning for me, so I can't quite think of an example off the top of my head, but there are a lot of LCGs that, when deckbuilding, you almost automatically include the same groupings of cards to take account of the synergies between them. None of the so-called hard-core LCG gamers seems to be thinking that pods may well actually have strong synergies between them, and if the deckbuilding was left entirely up to you, you'd most likely include those very same five cards with that objective anyway. While in previous games FFG has led us all by the nose as to what we would like to include in our decks, with the Star Wars LCG, they're now just taking the next logical step and telling us what to include.

Pod building will involve tough decisions, I don't disagree with that. But I think it will be more about choosing the lesser of two evils. Every pod you consider will have some cards you want, some cards you're generally OK with, and some cards you wish you could replace with something else. Challenging doesn't automatically translate to fun either.

It seems to me that even if FFG wanted to, it would be incredibly hard to design pods as small optimized groups of cards as spalanzani is suggesting. The reason is that you don't necessarily know what PART of cards people are interested in. Does the player want this character because it has a strong attack value? Or because he has a certain special ability? Maybe he thinks the ability is too expensive and doesn't plan to use it. Maybe he's not interested in that character at all, what he really wants out of the Pod are the Events or the ability on the Objective. For a whole pack of cards, and multiple stats, abilities, and icons on each one - I don't know if they CAN fit together for every possible reason someone was interested in them.

Even if you did pull this off, when more cards come out it's going to change as new reasons for wanting things arise. Oh, here's a new Pod with a couple of cards that grant bonuses to characters with the "Smuggler" keyword. Now all my old Pods with Smuggler cards gain a new use that their co-Pod cards don't necessarily mesh well with.

I'll wait and see the reviews when it comes out, but currently I'm skeptical about the pod-building aspect.

Let's say that someone made up pods for an existing LCG by putting all the cards into 10-card sets. How excited are you to try this variant? How likely do you think it is that it will replace normal play for you (ie - that you will prefer it to the regular version)?

As the thread has been thorougly derailed (not that I mind, the original subject was pretty thoroughly exhausted until more information about the game appears), I'd like to say that I personally very much like the pod model. It will make the game much easier to introduce to my casual circle of possible opponents over a cup of coffee at a café, it will make the decks thematic around the different characters and objectives (something that is often lacking in other lcgs/ccg's) and will still pose significant challenges with deck building.

A good and innovative step forward I say.

dboeren said:

But don't the cards also have something similar to a destiny value from SWCCG? While this may not translate into instant fun like you say, all cards are supposed to have value. And who knows? Maybe pods will be somewhat mutable via expansions.

qwertyuiop said:

I'm not familiar with the SWCCG, what is a destiny value?

qwertyuiop said:

No, there is nothing like a destiny value.

@dboeren: Destiny values were numbers on the cards that were used to add an element of randomness to the game. You would draw the top card of your deck and use the number on it to modify your values (allowing you to hit with weapons and do more combat damage etc).

Darksbane said:

Thanks. I think I am getting confused with elements of the edge battles…which I admit, I know practically nothing about.

@dboeren, you could build entire decks around destiny in SWCCG. Some were very effective.

Ah, ok. Yes, I can see how the edge battles are a little similar, but those are fought by playing cards from your hand so you know what you're bidding rather than functioning as a randomizer.

Exactly? And here is another reason why I think SW LCG and its deckbuilding can work fine : you'll never have "dead cards" : if a card is useless in your current strategy, keep it for the edge battles. If it has many 'Force points', you'll get the initiative ; if not, you can bluff your opponent and drive them to expend more cards pointlessly. Can be real fun, for 'imposed' cards… So it's fine by me.

Incidently, after looking a little bit at Darksbane spoiler list, the Rancor vs. Redemption (of any other vehicule) is solved: its special capacity appears toi read as: "Force Reaction: after you refresh, destroy the lowest cost non-Vehicule in play"…

Now, I don't see any issue with the non division of vehicules / characters. There are specific situations that are dealt with specific traits in the game. This is great! And this will definitely gives the game a different feeling from the old Decipher's SW game.

One thing that I noted from watching the demo games from Worlds, is that there do seem to be important distinctions between characters and vehicles. I'd been calling the Unit type of cards "Characters," as that's how they're classed in AGOT; everything, be it one person, an army, a dragon, a naval fleet, is a Character. Here, Character is just a trait units have. So perhaps in terms of the one-to-one combat, there won't be an enforced distinction between units, but in terms of special abilities, events, and fate cards, things should stay fairly thematic. No one will be force choking an X-Wing any time soon (unless trait manipulation becomes a thing in this game, but that's a whole other kettle of fish).

It's sad that C-3PO and R2-D2 don't get to be classified as Characters under this system. I've always thought of them as such. But I guess they're Droids. No feelings, and no feeling bad when they are killed prematurely; planned obsolescence and all.