Orgryn are big dumb brutes, and we love em for it. +10 Strength and Unnatural S (+2) is pretty handy for swinging a melee weapon around, and their high Toughness and Wounds (25+1d5!) make them **** sturdy. They're practically ghetto Astartes!

…except the Orgryn-Proof trait stabs them in the ass. They can never use a melee weapon better than a Mono- Great Weapon (2d10 Pen 2, Unbalanced) which is pretty lame in the long run. When your party gets up in the higher Logistics scores and start busting out the Bolt/Chain/Plasma/Power weapons, our big strong fella is stuck with a rather basic weapon. There's no way in the rules for a weapon to become Orgryn-Proof.

In essence, you have a big bruiser sort of character who really would be better off trying to figure out how to be shooty and nab an Autocannon even though he has three Aptitudes (Weapon Skill, Strength, Offence) built around melee. It leaves him with two options: be a tougher, less accurate Heavy Gunner, or be a melee character with a glass ceiling, forever trailing behind the Commissar or any kind of choppy Weapon Specialist. His chances of Dodging anything are about nil, he can't talk worth a ****, tests to shoot him are at +10… All he has going for him is that hefty stack of Wounds and his nice TB, and even that can't stand up to a full-auto barrage.

What gives?

the strength bonus really makes it a bit more even, IIRC you get 2x SB for using a two handed great weapon, which with the ogryns +10 str and unnatural str +2 makes that mono great weapon hit for 2d10+12 Pen 2 (assuming they only rolled average of 30 before ogryn modification) to me that is still a pretty brutal blow.

Solarisjock said:

This would be news to me.
I think there are a few weapons that double your strength bonus (I think the powerfist is one of those) but two handed weapons don't double it I belive.
Maybe I just missed it though, so if you could point me to where it says so that would be great.

hmm, looking through the book I don't see it in the entry for great weapons so that might have been a rule that carried over in my mind from DH. probably going to make it a house rule though just makes sense that if you use a 2-handed weapon weapon you use more strength when you hit.

2d10+20 (avg 30) +10 + Unnatural S +2 = effective SB of 6. Thrown onto a mono Great Weapon, you are looking at 2d10+6 Pen 2. A fella swinging around an Eviscerator has an advantage. Heaven forbid Power or Force weapons make a showing.

yeah the ogryn thread is about 14 pages long. I've always been an advocat of letting ogryns use heavy weapons as basic weapons and 2 Handed Weapons as one handed ones.

otherwise a whole talent line becomes mute for them as well (ambidex, two-weapon wielder)

IMHO the whole ogryn-proof stuff is very badly thought out.

oh there's even more.

ogryns can't use

- quickdraw

- hipshooting

- two-weapon wielder (unless you go unarmed)

- blade dancer

- gun slinger

- las gun barrage

- arms master

- and whole friggin lot of general equipment (probably 90%)

btw I am playing an Ogryn right now and he is a friggin TANK. Unless the opponents pull out heavy weapons I just walk through gunfire like it's not even there. We are at around 8k exp and my ogryn is around black crusade powerlevel (well our +30 commerce int 65 medic has a lot to do with that).

so far the ogryn is at TB9 with imperial guard armor (4 AP) and Subskin Armor (AP2). My goal is to stack armor till the cows come home (bionic heart, cyberlimbs, skull plate, light carapace)