Is there a player action window after the last player has finished all of their challenges? I suppose if they haven't done all of the challenges allowed them, there would be one, as they have the option to declare one of each type regardless of whether or not they are actually able to do so. But is there a window after they've done the maximum number of challenges? On a similar note, is there a window still open if they declare that they have no more challenges, or does it then move to the end of phase framework?

yes, the phase begins and ends with a full player action window.

FRAMEWORK ACTION

1. Determine winner

2. Result implemented

3. UO power

4. Renown

* If Active Player has more challenge opportunities move back to top most Player Action window, otherwise move forward)

FRAMEWORK ACTION

1. Active Player is finished with challenges

2. Next Player becomes Active Player (If there is a next player move back to top most player action window, otherwise move forward)

FRAMEWORK ACTION

1. Challenges Phase Ends

I don't see a player action window available after the last player resolves their last challenge.

Slothgodfather said:

In case you're wondering, after my 3rd challenge, we go back to that player action window to make sure that I really am out of challenge opportunities, both the "normal" ones and those that could be created by card effects.

The same thing happens for the last active player. After each of the last active player's challenges, you go back to that player action window to ensure that they really are out of challenge opportunities - just like the "active player" status does not pass from one player to the next until they have a chance to play effects that could give them more challenge opportunities.

But if you didn't have Myrcella out, then you don't have any other opportunities. I do get what you are saying, and I am glad there is a player action at the end of the last player's challenges - but the flow chart doesn't convey that very well at all to me. It would seem more fluid to have a Player Action window actually listed between the check for "next player" and the "end of challenges" windows.

But then I suppose people would argue if you used Myrcella during that player action window you wouldn't be able to go back to the top to actually initiate that challenge…

Ah well, at least I understand it better now. They could have just said something like "repeat cycle" on the right side arrow and then it would make more sense, to me at least LOL.

Slothgodfather said:

I could have included "and have no other way of initiating an additional challenge, therefore having no opportunities" but I was just using your example. I do understand the reasoning though and agree that it makes sense that the "opportunity" is apparently present regardless of whether the player has the means to do anything about it. As usual, ty for the info/clarifications.

Okay, thanks for the clarification.

@Sloth - While I don't appreciate the sarcasm, I was under the same impression as you (being familiar with the flowcharts in the FAQ), which is why I asked the question. It seemed odd to me that there wouldn't be a final window, but the flowchart led me to believe there wasn't. If you're not sure about the information you're giving, you shouldn't present it as fact.

Hmm. I didn't read that as Sloth trying to sarcastically answer the original post. I read it as Sloth asking dcdennis for a more detailed answer than "yes" since the FAQ flowcharts are confusing and don't support the "yes" answer at first glance.

You may be right, it's hard to convey tone of voice in a written medium.

LOL, what did I miss?

Anyways, @ J_Roel - that is exactly what I was saying. Dennis said there is one. I didn't see it. That was the only "fact" I presented ;-) Thus the discussion over the apparent ever present loop to assure there are no more player opportunities.

Like I mentioned in my previous ramblings/post, if they did have a final player action in the framework, without some additional arrow to loop back up to the "initiate challenges" framework then people could easily argue if you waited until the last player action you could no longer trigger things that grant you additional challenges. Now that the "opportunities" loop has been explained to me, this approach does seem a lot better, but like you, I just didn't see it to start with. We even played a game wrong awhile back with NE not being able to be played after the last players challenge, which happened to be a MIL challenge. We all agreed there should be one, but just didn't see it in the chart.

As a side note, I am generally rather sarcastic in nature, but since I'm generally either asking for others opinions or offering my own ramblings/thoughts on this forum, I do try to leave that out. Though as some may have noticed I do like to beat a dead horse until I fully understand the reasoning of something, instead of just saying "the guys on the net told me so" when asked about rules quesitons.