hey this situation actually just happened and had me not sure how it works so i am second person i loose challenge by over four so play viper's rage but then when i do a challenge oppenent lays down the catlyn that can defend from hand would she still have her icons? viper's rage doesnt say charactors in play

viper's rage doesn't need to say in play because all cards only affect and can only interact with cards that are in play unless they specifically say otherwise so the correct observation is actually that viper's rage does not refer to characters in hand so it doesn't affect cards that are in hand it wouldn't matter if viper's rage said in hand anyway there is nothing in catelyn's ability that requires her to have the icon corresponding to the challenge she is jumping in to the effect itself specifies the challenge type it never looks at her icons since she is not being declared as a defender it doesn't matter what icons she has or doesn't have her ability makes her a defender and losing an icon once the character is participating doesn't stop the character from participating (that's faq #1 in the faq document)

See how much harder that is to read? You live in Minnesota, so the likelihood that English is not your native language is probably pretty slim. It would be greatly appreciated if you could extend the common courtesy of proper capitalization and punctuation in your posts so that they could be read, rather than interpreted.

On the content rather than the form, does it really matter that a character wasn't in play when such a lasting effect resolves (might be Jorah PotS or Robb Stark LoW). Wouldn't the character become affected the moment it enters play if it matches the criteria, because the characters affected by the effect weren't locked in with targetting?

On the form: English is not my native language and I manage punctuation and capitalization pretty well (leaving punctuation outside of quotes is deliberate).

Khudzlin said:

This is a slightly different question that what I could understand from the original post, which seemed to say that since Viper's Rage did not specify "in play," it must act on the cards that the opponent had in hand . That, obviously, is not the case.

However, as the answer does say somewhere in the poor formatting, the fact that Catelyn loses her icons as soon as she enters play doesn't matter - because she enters play as a defender, and once you are participating, you must be specifically removed. Losing the icon once you are participating in the challenge doesn't help.

Khudzlin said:

ktom said:

Thanks for explaining that, i am suprised didn't even think how she doesn't need the icons. And actually to me i read it just find, when i post on a fourm i don't think about my grammer, this isn't an english paper. But, just for you i'll try to actually put in the punctuation and what not. I don't when i text my friends either and none of them mind but okay….

ktom said:

Between this statement and the one from the other thread involving March to the Wall, I have learned so much today!

mnBroncos said:

I'm willing to bet you don't text your friends about tricky AGoT rules. And you probably know each other well, which always helps. We don't know you and this forum is all about tricky AGoT rules, where the placement of quotes can change the meaning of a sentence. Not to mention a lot of the people here don't have English as their first language, so the clearer you are, the better.

About how necessary capitalization is: consider the sentence "I helped my uncle Jack off a horse." and drop the capital…

@ktom: that part was actually directed at mnBroncos, along the lines of "if I can do it, you should have no problem".

Yea and I get that, sorry wasn't trying to sound real upset or anything. Just not something use to have to do, stupid grammer haha.

Khudzlin said:

mnBroncos said:

Seriously, know your audience. Setting aside the fact that the rules make it easier to communicate in an international forum, if you ignore the rules of grammar in your written communications, people over 30 are tend to think you are inconsiderate, lazy, stupid, or some combination thereof.

Just some friendly advice from a guy roughly twice your age.

For what it's worth, I wasn't telling anyone to jack off a horse. That was just the only exemple I know of capitalization actually changing the meaning of a sentence. For punctuation, you can easily make one along the lines of "A said 'B does X.'." vs "A, said B, does X.".

Khudzlin said:

~But… why not? It's a really fun hobby!

Bomb said:

~I'm not telling you not to, either. But I don't want to know.

Khudzlin said:

~WHAT? NOW you tell me?

How do you make the difference between a generic lasting effect and a specific one affecting multiple cards?

Khudzlin said:

Now you have me curious.

The Only Game That Matters :

Any Phase: Until the end of the challenge, participating characters without an [intrigue] icon do not count their STR.

The Viper's Rage :

Response: After you lose a challenge by 4 or more total STR as the defender, all characters controlled by the attacker lose a Military, an Intrigue, and a Power icon until the end of the phase.

I notice one key difference in the cards. In The Viper's Rage , until the end of the phase appears to be a part of the effect. In The Only Game That Matters , it comes before the effect. I don't know if that's the answer, but it seems like a good starting point.

Beware the Sphinx is similar to The Only Game That Matters .

Challenges: Choose a participating Maester character. Until the end of the challenge, that character gets +1 STR for each Chain attachment it has. If you win the challenge, draw 2 cards. I think everyone would agree that if you add a chain mid challenge it would get additional strength.

Compelled by the North is similar to The Viper's Rage :

Challenges: Each defending character gets +2 STR until the end of the challenge. Then, stand all House Stark characters with Banner attachments attached. This one seems like it would cause confusion.

Yay guesswork and indeterminate templating!

Bomb said:

I think that is what got Catherine the Great in trouble.

Flagrin said:

Yea… I forgot to call out Khudzlin for his necromancy. You just replied to a comment that is over a year old, lol.

Considering Ktom gave the opposite answer (yeah, about whether Rage of the Viper affected characters coming into play later) in an even earlier thread and that the question needs an answer, I'm not ashamed of that.

Khudzlin said:

I thought he said that Viper's Rage doesn't affect new characters entering play?

Anyway, the reason people call out necroed threads is to prevent the exact instance of a year old reply, lol. There's nothing inherently wrong with it, but it's considered bad forum etiquette on other forums as it can cause confusion with what people said a year ago and what they might say now.

mdc273 said:

It is not considered bad form on this forum. Not that I am aware of anyway. On the contrary, I much prefer to have all the relevant information pertaining to a card/situation/ruling collected in one reference thread rather than scattered about.