Does each have its own full window? Or is it like when revealeds where one comes out, the other comes out, then you respond to both.

dcdennis said:

To quote the shadows rules:

"When more than one player want to bring a card out of Shadows at the
beginning of a phase, the players do so one at a time, starting with the
first player and proceeding clockwise. This happens before any other
“beginning of the phase” effects occur. Each player has one chance to
bring a card out of Shadows each phase. If this opportunity is passed,
it is lost until the beginning of the next phase. Each card that comes out
of Shadows is treated as a separate action, and must be fully resolved
(including all responses) before the next card is brought out of Shadows. "

Shadows Arya Stark could be killed and put into the shadows with VB. If that player hasn't had a chance to do shadows, he can then bring her back out as his shadow action.

The Shadow mechanic is completely unique and you probably shouldn't try to explain it with the timing charts as the exist.

This is because Shadows is something of a hybrid mechanic - as defined in the Shadows rule. It is "passive" in that the opportunity is created by the phase starting, whether the player wants to use it or not. But it is "triggered" in that passives/Responses to each card coming out of Shadows is completed before the next one is brought out. So, Shadows is the only mechanic in which something resembling a full player action window takes place completely within the "passive" step of a framework action window.

See? Not worth trying to explain it with the timing windows we have. But easy to execute correctly using the rules description.

In this article we did try to integrate Shadows into the normal timing structure of the game. Works, as far as I can tell.

Without reading it, this is what every "Start of Phase" framework window looks like:

Step 1: Initiate "Start Phase"
Step 2: Save/Cancel vs. "Start Phase"
Step 3: Resolve "Start Phase" (Phase officially begins)
Step 4: Passives
Step 4I: Shadows Opportunities.

Step sI.1: 1st Player "Out of Shadows" Initiates
Step sI.2: Save/Cancel vs. 1st Player "Out of Shadows"
Step sI.3: 1st Player "Out of Shadows" Resolves (Card enters play)
Step sI.4: Passives to Steps sI.1-sI.3 ONLY
Step sI.5: Responses to Steps sI.1-sI.4 ONLY
Step sI.6: Remove all cards that became moribund in sI.1-sI.5; close Response opportunities to Step sI.1-Step sI.6

Step sX.1: Next Player "Out of Shadows" Initiates
Step sX.2: Save/Cancel vs. Next Player "Out of Shadows"
Step sX.3: Next Player "Out of Shadows" Resolves (Card enters play)
Step sX.4: Passives to Steps sX.1-sX.3 ONLY
Step sX.5: Responses to Steps sX.1-sX.4 ONLY
Step sX.6: Remove all cards that became moribund in sX.1-sX.5; close Response opportunities to Step sX.1-Step sX.6
(Repeat until all players have had exactly 1 opportunity to bring a card out of Shadows.)

Step 4II: Other Passives (Passives to Steps 1-3)
Step 5: Standard Responses (Responses to Steps 1-3 and NON-Shadow passives (Step 4II)).
Step 6: End

ktom said:

Basically, yes. However, it's important to note that the first Response opportunity to a card coming out of Shadows is with the player to the left of the player bringing the card out of Shadows (like in a Player Action Window) rather than the First Player (like it would be during a Framework Action Window). So I guess it's best to say that Shadows works like a special kind of Player Action Window that is inserted into the "Beginning of phase" Framework Action Window (much in the same way as Dragonstone Port inserts a PAW into the "Choose and reveal plots" FAW), rather than being a special kind of Framework Event. Right?

ktom said:

I thought Shadows Opportunities happenend before passives keyed off the start of the phase, like Jaime or Theon. From the Shadows rule leaflet:

When more than one player want to bring a card out of Shadows at the beginning of a phase, the players do so one at a time, starting with the first player and proceeding clockwise. This happens before any other “beginning of the phase” effects occur. Each player has one chance to bring a card out of Shadows each phase. If this opportunity is passed, it is lost until the beginning of the next phase. Each card that comes out of Shadows is treated as a separate action, and must be fully resolved (including all responses) before the next card is brought out of Shadows.

I wanted to say the same thing. In a recent Thread i asked about the specific timing concerning lets say Tywin (core) and a shadow card.

I was told Shadow card is brought into play before tywin's passive is triggered.

Khudzlin said:

This is why, in the diagram above, "Step 4: Passives" is broken down into "Step 4I: Shadows Opportunities" and "Step 4II: Other Passives (to Steps 1-3)."

MrFixit said: