Runewars is in a smaller box now. I wonder if this means they're planning to eventually ditch this size box for Twilight Imperium as well?

I hope not. I think the massive box helps portray the sheer epic-ness of this game. Whenever we're introducing newcomers to games we just point at the Twilight Imperium box dwarfing everything else on the shelf and say "and THAT is the most epic and massive game you will ever play".

Maybe they'll ditch the big box for all games EXCEPT Twilight Imperium, thus letting it remain king and cemented as FFG's flagship game?

Not to mention that with the two expansions, this massive box is ALMOST FULL because there's so much stuff!

Anyone else also love the EPIC box for Twilight Imperium and hope it stays?

EPIC BOX FOREVER!

Epic Box is purely epic! o/

I don't think that it is possible to shrink the box. I mean, if you think of the parts, the ships are in the frames and they need such a big box. The only way is to deliever the ships without the frames, like with the Shattered Empire expansion. But I think it's great that the box is so big, of course it takes a lot of space away (at least in comparison with other games) but I remember the day the game was delievered and I opened the packet, I have never seen such a big box, like ever. So I think it should stay, it's impressive and it's a great moment if you see it the first time.

I believe the inevitable TI4 will be a smaller-sized box.

FFG's game design has changed considerably since TI3 was released. TI4 is bound to require much less components to play (and would be much faster to play as it's the main critiscism of TI3).

For example:
- They would replace trade goods counters to a dial on your race sheet.
- They would change the command counters on your race sheet with dials, leaving only the command counters to put on the map. This reduces considerably the number of counters per race.
- There wouldn't be "sprues" for the ships, requiring less space in the box.
- Make the game for 4 players? adding a fifth or sixth player in an expansion…

I don't mind if the TI4 box is smaller, I mean, it has to fit the size of the game and why should you use a bigger box than you need? I thought they are going to shrink the size of the TI3 box, like of all the games which are produced from a certain date on.

And thanks for the word "sprues", didn't know it.

I for one like the original epic sized 3rd edition box because I can fit the base game with both expansions in it. And I think I might fit a little more stuff in there. Just in case there's a third expansion to 3rd ed.

deedob said:

Dials for trade goods would be benefit, though I don't think it would be wise to put them on the race sheet. Rather have neutral "per player" dials. It would require a whole lot of extra ressources, just for extra racial dials - although the luxury for a gaming experience such as TI, it could be neat, though not needed. I doubt FFG would reduce the number of races in the future, if just for reducing such ordeals. Maybe revamp or tweak one or the other, but not discard them entirely, or make them NPC-races.

The replacement of CCs with dials would need a revamp of the system. I think the current method has a very nice interactive feel. You take a CC from your active pool, and put it somewhere. Why use a dial, when you have to take a CC from anywhere anyway?

Revamping TI for fewer players is something as epic and difficult as the game itself. The core problem is, that fewer numbers of players fall prey to a common, basic problem: 3 players are just stalling each other. If two players get into conflict, the third, waiting, will immediately win that opportunity. It is more a game of military and tactics, than true politics. For tactical games without much politics, there are other, and also faster, alternatives.

Four players are similar, but more playable in the sense of TI. The problem here is, that most of the time 2v2 games will emerge one way or another.

5+ enables TI to create dynamics and uncertain actions by everyone onto everyone. Politics, diplomacy, are truly important here. In bigger games 3vs3 or even 4vs4 won't happen. Lot's of small factions, alliances, groups, will form and morph and change throughout a game. With smaller is just not possible due to basic math.

I will say that I love the big box. As Mattr0polis said, it happens with people I know too - I point at that box and say, "…but if you ever want to play the most complex epic game ever - we can crack that box open."

My vote is to keep the box, and for the record - I hope a 4th Edition does not get 'dumbed' down. This is an epic and complex game - and that's that. I am all for another expansion to 3rd Edition, however. Yes. Please. Thank you.