Maester Kerwin
Response: Kill Maester Kerwin (cannot be saved) to cancel any effect that chooses 1 of your Ironborn characters as its only target.

if Search and Detain or stealth choose 1 my Ironborn characters as only target,can Maester Kerwin cancel it?

thanks

Interesting. I never noticed that Kerwin does not say 'triggered' effect. I wonder if this is another wording snafu that will be errata'd or if it was intentional.

We know that wildling wisewoman with similar wording can cancel threat from the east, so i'd say that as worded kerwin can indeed cancel a plot effect targetting an ironborn.

Yes, Kerwin can cancel any effect, not just triggered effect, provided that it chooses just one target - and that target is one of your Ironborn characters.

So yeah, if one of your Ironborn characters is chosen by Search and Detain, you can use Kerwin. Similarly, if you choose an Ironborn character to die for Deadly, Kerwin can cancel that, too.

Kerwin does have the potential to cancel Stealth, too, but it is potentially just a bit more confusing. That's because Stealth is not initiated/resolved individually for each attacker with stealth. It is initiated/resolved all at once for each challenge (as a framework event) with the number of defending characters targeted and bypassed determined by the number of attacking characters with the keyword. So, for Kerwin to work here, the Ironborn character must be the only character bypassed for that challenge. But if more than one character is chosen to be bypassed (because there is more than one attacker with Stealth, for example), then the "as its only target" restriction on Kerwin will not be met.

Can it cancel deadly?

ktom said:

Dennis is my new best friend.

how about cancel the claim of pyat pree?

db123456 said:

If you are talking about Pyat Pree's passive it cannot be canceled. It is also not optional if he does indeed attack and win on his own.

emptyrepublic said:

It is indeed mandatory if the restrictions are met. But it's still an effect with a single target. Kerwin says "any effect" (which does include claim, since it's a rulebook effect). So I don't see why it couldn't be cancelled (since Pyat Pree's text doesn't contain "cannot be cancelled").

Khudzlin said:

No. No. No. No. No!

There are a lot of old threads on this Khudzlin. Pyat Pree's effect has no target ! When it applies, it changes the way that the claim effect for the challenge resolves. Then the claim effect chooses the target, not Pyat Pree's effect. The character that dies is killed by the claim effect, not by Pyat Pree's effect.

This is why cards that are immune to character effects or card effects can be killed when Pyat is involved - because the character/card effect is not doing the killing (the claim effect is).

So, since it is the claim effect, not the card effect, that is choosing the target, Pyat Pree's effect itself will never meet the restrictions for Kerwin - that is, Pyat Pree's effect will never choose an Ironborn character as its only target (since it has no target to begin with). And since "claim" is not a card effect, Kerwin is no more effective when Pyat attacks than he is against any 1-claim military challenge.

I didn't see Ktom's reply (it wasn't showing up), and I was typing up something similar but with slightly less confidence (including the "cancelling military claim" argument). Glad to have you confirm it!

ktom said:

~We've almost broken him down. Keep at it, boys! His shields are almost down!

ktom said:

All joking aside, Kerwin doesn't say "card effect". He says "effect". Claim is an effect too (the rulebook says so). So, why wouldn't Kerwin be able to cancel claim? And while we're at it, why wouldn't Wildling Wisewoman be able to cancel the extra card from that Multiplayer title? The timing of the game certainly would allow for the possibility.

~Can Kerwin cancel Crown Regent's redirect if the chosen opponent is Ironborn?

Ratatoskr said:

Note that canceling claim is not the same thing as canceling Pyat, though.

Ratatoskr said:

ktom said:

See kids, that's what happens when you post from memory instead of checking the card text first, just because you need to run and catch a train.

Thanks anyway, ktom. I'll check with FFG, but I'm really starting to think I'm on their **** list or something. I haven't gotten an answer to the whole lose all keywords/Baelon's Host/Pentoshi Manor quagmire. Maybe they'll just put that in the FAQ without bothering to inform me first, like they did with Darkstar/Maester of the Sun, which I'd inquired about twice without hearing back. If they do I won't complain, because that stuff needs to get straightened out.

That said, unless and until we hear back from FFG I think it should be ruled that Kerwin can cancel claim and other applicable framework events, because that's entirely consistent with the written rules, as far as I can see.

It's possible that they aren't getting back to you because they're straightening it out and they want to make sure they get it right. Maybe, I'm just speculating.

And I didn't say that

• claim is a card effect (I said "any effect" includes claim)
• Kerwin would cancel Pyat Pree's effect (though my reference to "the effect" isn't specified, I meant "the claim effect as modified by Pyat Pree" - I did mention Pyat Pree's "text" rather than "effect")

So… what Ratatoskr said, what we have here is a rulebook effect with a single target on the one hand (modified claim), and a cancel response for any effect that chooses an Ironborn character as its only target on the other (Kerwin's response) and as far as I understand English and AGoT rules, the latter can be used against the former (provided the chosen character has the Ironborn trait, ofc).

Yes, you were vindicated a couple of posts ago when Rat pointed out my mistake in thinking that Kerwin said "card effect," leading to my thinking that the only interaction with Pyat would have been to cancel Pyat's card effect (not possible) instead of the game's claim effect (possible).

While I'm at it resurrecting old threads and arguing with ktom, I'd like to bring up the old "Can Kerwin cancel Stealth/Deadly" thing again.

The FAQ clearly says that the effects of keywords with a point of initiation cannot be cancelled. Deadly is a passive effect and clearly has a point of initiation. Stealth is a framework event and clearly has a point of initiation. Why can they be cancelled by Kerwin again? What am I missing?

Another thing: Back when I promised to inquire at FFG whether Kerwin can cancel Claim. Seems like I've forgotten to do that. Have we had word on this in the meantime? Is it still necessary to send this to FFG?

Ratatoskr said:

Just an oversight in answering the question.

I'm sure you've never gotten so focused on answering the primary aspect of a question that you overlooked a rule that was applicable to the overall situation, right?

Ratatoskr said:

I doubt anyone got word on it, but I don't think it's necessary. Kerwin does say "any effect." Claim is an effect - although not a card effect. While normally, when something refers to an "effect," it refers only to "card effects," the specific use of the word "any" on Kerwin extends beyond the usual interpretation.

(Plus, you know, short of Pyat Pree being involved, how often is this going to come up? "I lost a military challenge. I choose this Ironborn character to die for it. But because of that, I can now kill Kerwin to cancel the claim." Why in the world would you do that and run the risk of having Kerwin canceled, instead of just choosing Kerwin for claim in the first place?)

ktom said:

Oh, that and a lot worse, plenty of times. I didn't mean to attack you, I just wanted to make sure.

ktom said:

Yeah, I agree.