PC: "I want to sell to sell Rare Widget."

Me: "The shopkeep will give you 1000 gold (random amount that seems appropriate)."

PC: "I have a feat that lets me get 10% more."

Me: "Ok, he'll give you 1100 gold for it."

This is how I run every RPG I GM. I don't see SW:EotE being any different. Might be nice to toss in a paragraph or two for newbie GMs who need everything spelled out, but for experienced GMs I don't see how it's an issue. Just my 2 cents.

deanruel said:

Your proposed 'trade' assumes that others value behaving in such a manner toward you for no apparent effect (since you "don't mind at all"). So, essentially, you act like an ******* (your word) and force others to accept communicating at your level whether they wish to or not. Good job - you're a conversational rapist.

HappyDaze said:

Oh, oh oh! Hey! That is one loaded word there, and IMO it has no place in even the least polished of discourse. Rhetoric and bombast are nice and all, but an accusation like that is not called for. I think you should take that back. You don't like that deanruel is a knob? Fair enough, but don't let's demean the severity of the actual offense through rampant conflation, yeh?

It's cool.

Anyway. The fact that selling prices should be included is self evident and obvious, so I'm not really gonna talk about it anymore. What I will do is talk to the people arguing against it. Every time someone makes a proposition or suggestion for the game you should try to figure out whether the suggestion is good or bad for the game, and then you should write responses to it. But run yourself through a check each time where you invert the situation. Ask yourself in this case; would you argue for the REMOVAL of selling prices if they were already in the game? Meaning if the game had gone to print with rules for selling items would you argue that those sections of the book should be removed? That GM's should know how to make up their own trade prices for every item in the book and that those sections prevent you from having a better game? I would wager not. I would wager that if someone asked to remove those sections that you would argue with them as you are arguing with me now. That you would argue not based on the issue, but to -keep the book in it's current form-. If this is true for you then it is likely that you are an apologist. That's ok though, that's not unusual. It's a natural reaction to become proprietary over things you like and when someone points out flaws in that thing you react emotionally rather than logically. Your first reaction is to excuse or rationalize, and not to analyze and think critically. Well….just…..stop doing that. "The Designers" are not some group of geniuses with a vision mere mortals shouldn't temper with lest we ruin their perfect craft. They're just dudes. I'm good friends with some Shadowrun writers (and honestly Shadowrun is a much tighter rules system than this) and let me tell you, they are just regular dudes. They write rules for paychecks, and they're pretty cool. But they're just dudes.

So try to temper your instinct to fight for a product. It can't feel your love and it won't love you back. Remember that it's your job here, in a minute way, to make this product better and you can't do that properly if you will instinctively react to changing it negatively. So…….stop doing that.

Corradus said:

Rapist - one who commits an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation

Seems an entirely accurate description to me, given deanruel essentially admitted to it by indicating he didn't care about what we thought, he'd act like that regardless.

Now, can we stop with the off-topic banter, please?

On-topic, I agree with angelicdoctor - given the huge variations in costs for items that moving from planet to planet can bring, as well as the possibility of some normally legal stuff being illegal on any given planet, trying to codify rules for how much stuff costs when it comes to sell it, when there aren't really any 100% "this is the price you will always pay" set prices for how much you can buy stuff for, would be pointless.

MILLANDSON said:

That is not the definition of rapist. I'm guessing you personally cobbled that together by adding the prefix of "One who commits" to the dictionary.com definition of "****" which includes the Old English use of the word wherein it could be used to describe the taking of land by force but THAT use, even in it's day, was analogically comparing the taking of the land by force to the taking of women by force I.E. actual ****. They, both, are derived from the latin Raptio, which is abduction of women. So to be clear the definition of rapist is "One who commits ****" and **** is "The unlawful compelling of a person, through force, to have sexual intercourse". But if you and the poster you referenced have just traveled here from 14th century England let me say to you "Harken Olde Scholars, Yon definition is misconstrued! At no point have I seized nor abducted land nor women by force which is the only definition of the word ye have applied!" and if by some chance you're not a time-traveller then you're just an ******* who's opinions on both game design AND linguistics are wrong and intellectually dishonest.

obvious ******* is an *******

but since he told us he is, we 'must' accept it

this forum really brings out the best in all of us

Hi everyone,

Validity of the original poster's point aside, if people cannot be civil on this thread we'll have to delete the thread entirely.

deanruel said:

Could you tell me what page that sidebar is on? Thanks!

-EF

EldritchFire said:

Top of page 121

deanruel said:

Thanks!

-EF

It should be fun to play a Trader!! And your characteristics, skills and talents should be just as useful and important for the party as those of a combat-focused PC.

IMO there should of course be a basic set of rules for trading in the core book for those of us who play games where buying/selling is a significant part of the storyline (and for GMs who haven't time to make homerules or new GMs who don't have any experience in making up solid mechanics for things like this). Other GMs are free to ignore the system and/or make their own.

Here is a suggestion for how a simple system could work:

When the PCs have obtained a cargo (or perhaps even before they obtain it) they want to make determine the best location to sell the cargo. The GM roll a Knowledge (Outer Rim) test -> the GM comes up with selling prices for a few nearby planets/stations based on a Base Price multiplied by a Planet Selling Modifier (based the wealth, civilization status etc. of the planet/station) provided in the Planet Characteristics -> Advantages/Threats could be used to give the PCs true/false rumours on market fluctuations at a given location -> Despair could indicates that the seller has tampered with the cargo.

When the PCs sell their cargo, the GM sets the default price based on a Base Price multiplied by a Planet Selling Modifier and modified by any market fluctuations. The PCs roll an opposed Negotiate test against a generic merchant to determine the final offer -> the PCs then decide whether or not to accept the final price. The PCs might want to Charm or Deceit the merchant before negotiating the price to affect his/her attitude towards them or his/her estimation of the value of the cargo (modify the Negotiate test dice pool). When the deal is concluded, the PCs pay a standard 5% or 10% custom duty (the percentage should be playtested!) which can be lowered by a Knowledge (Education) test.

When the PCs want to purchase a cargo, the GM consult the Planet Characteristics for Major Exports and roll a number of d100 on a Cargo Table (based on the wealth of the Planet) to determine which commodities are available for purchase. Then the GM sets the default price based on a Base Price multiplied by a Planet Buying Modifier and modified by any market fluctuations. The PCs roll an opposed Negotiate test against a generic merchant to determine the final offer -> the PCs then decide whether or not to accept the final price. Again, the PCs might want to Charm the merchant before negotiating the price to affect his/her attitude towards them (modify the Negotiate test dice pool).

There are of course other systems that would work just as fine, but the suggested mechanics here are simple and make use of the relevant skills and talents … and narrative play keeps the focus on the characters and their skills, and not on the mechanics.

What is needed from the developers to make this system work are:

- A set of rules on legal trading in the core book,

- A cargo table of 10-15 standard commodities including Base Prices and a d100 randomizer,

- Planet characteristics including Planet Selling Modifier, Planet Buying Modifier and Major Exports .

… and then the system should be playtested !

Upcoming supplements could contain more information on commodities and mechanical details (e.g., determination of how many Enc can be bought or sold; more on market fluctuations and customs).