Rules clarification needed: What does "bypass" mean, and how does it interact with the act of "encountering" ICE?

By HikariStarshine, in Android: Netrunner Rules Questions

Given the discussions going on over at the BGG forums on this, it seems like there needs to be a specific clarification from Lukas, official errata, or something similar on this set of interactions before everyone will be satisfied with an answer and agree on how to handle this.

First, the cards and relevant text from the cards in question, to make sure that everyone's on the same page. First the ICE:

Chum: Subroutine: The next piece of ice the Runner encounters during this run has +2 strength. Do 3 net damage unless the Runner breaks all subroutines on that piece of ice.

Data Raven: When the Runner encounters Data Raven, he or she must either take 1 tag or end the run.

Tollbooth: When the Runner encounters Tollbooth, he or she must pay 3 Credits, if able. If the Runner cannot pay 3 Credits, end the run.

Data Raven and Tollbooth each carry a single Subroutine, but the details of those Subroutines are trivial for this question; only the presence of the Subroutine in either case is necessary, due to the Icebreaker in this situation:

Femme Fatale: When you install Femme Fatale, choose an installed piece of ice. When you encounter that ice, you may spend 1 Credit per subroutine on that ice to bypass it.

Now we set up the situation. The server that is being run against has two ICE installed. At the first layer, Chum is waiting for the Runner. The following ICE could be either Data Raven or Tollbooth; either of those creates this same interaction. Finally, the Runner has Femme Fatale attached to the Data Raven/Tollbooth.

The Runner begins the run, and does nothing about Chum, just trudging right through it. The subroutine is not broken, so now Chum is watching for its trigger to occur. Corp player rezzes the Data Raven/Tollbooth. Now we get to the questions:


1) Data Raven and Tollbooth each have a single subroutine on them, so Femme Fatale's special effect allows them to be "bypassed" for 1 Credit. Does this mean that a) the subroutines are "bypassed", a term which we have no definition for or information about in the context of subroutines whatsoever, b) the subroutines are broken (the wrong word was used in this case), or c) the entire ICE is bypassed, a term we have no definition for in the rulebook?

2) If 1b is not the way that Femme Fatale behaves in this situation, does this play out as: a) Data Raven or Tollbooth execute their on-encounter triggers, ICE is bypassed for 1 Credit by Femme Fatale, Chum deals 3 net damage because the subroutines were not broken; b) Data Raven or Tollbooth are bypassed and on-encounter triggers do not execute due to Femme Fatale bypassing the ICE, Chum deals 3 net damage because the subroutines were not broken; or c) Data Raven or Tollbooth are bypassed by Femme Fatale with no effect, Chum looks for a third ICE in the line because the second one was bypassed.

If 1b is the way that Femme Fatale behaves, then presumably the effect is d) Data Raven or Tollbooth execute their on-encounter triggers, Femme Fatale breaks the subroutine for 1 Credit, Chum is satisfied and does not go off at all.

I guess the underlying question in all this, really, is what exactly "bypass" means, and how it interacts with on-encounter triggers.

I tend to think that 1c is the intent, though I have no idea what the intended interactions with Chum are implied by that interpretation of bypassed.

That's why I ask, actually. My assumption, by looking at the cards, is that 1c and 2b are the correct answers; the only other card in the core set, Inside Job , seems fairly straightforward in its text (Make a run. Bypass the first piece of ice encountered during this run.) and only gives us a hint as to the in-game meaning of "bypass" as it applies to ICE. As it's the only other currently-published place the term appears, it seems that the intent is that "bypass" applies to a given piece of ICE as a whole, not the individual Subroutines contained within it. However, Femme Fatale's own trigger occurs *after* the ICE is encountered, rather than before as in the case of Inside Job.

I'm inclined to give Femme Fatale priority on the subject of Data Raven or Tollbooth, as you're bypassing the entire ICE. However, Chum has already been passed, and as you have to encounter the ICE that Femme Fatale is attached to, that seems to set Chum's feeding frenzy into motion, right?

Excellent question. I'm not sure how often the FFG guys actually check on these forums (with other games it was hit or miss). If you want an official answer you should submit this via the Rules Questions form here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp ,

Others have had good luck with it,

If you do get an answer, keep us posted happy.gif

Here is the question I sent to Lukas, followed by his answer. Hopefully it's helpful:

"There's some disagreement about how Chum interacts with ICE that is bypassable. For example:

ICE #1 is Chum. The runner does not break its subroutines.
ICE #2 is the ice that Femme Fatale may pay to bypass.

Assuming the runner pays to bypass ICE #2 with Femme Fatale, does the runner then take damage from Chum?"

Lukas replied:

"Thanks for the question. Yes, the Runner will still take damage from Chum since the ice was encountered, and bypassing does not break subroutines."

So it seems that you encounter the ICE before Femme Fatale's ability may be used.

At the same time, I wonder (and just sent in a rules question) about how that means that Femme Fatale interacts with Data Raven and Tollbooth. Again, it *seems* that it should counter the on-encounter effects of both, but a clarification is always nice.

Still, though, this should really be in the Errata/FAQ when that comes out.

HikariStarshine said:

At the same time, I wonder (and just sent in a rules question) about how that means that Femme Fatale interacts with Data Raven and Tollbooth. Again, it *seems* that it should counter the on-encounter effects of both, but a clarification is always nice.

Still, though, this should really be in the Errata/FAQ when that comes out.

Well, with Lukas' clarification, the Ice is still encountered, so it makes sense for the on-encounter effects to still take place.

Data Raven, Tollbooth and Femme Fatale all have the same trigger, "When you encounter…". Since Lukas has confirmed that the ice is encountered under these circumstances, then I can't see how the on-encounter effects couldn't be applied.

This ruling had already posted in a thread over on Board Game Geek before the first post here on the "officiel" forums. See the very bottom post on this link :

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/852470/chum-question/page/2

I wish that FFG would just have an official presence on at least one board, instead of responding individually to questions. Oh well, let's at least hope that we get a FAQ soon.

I think it falls under the Simultaneous Effects rule: all effects are "when you encounter", so since it's the Runner's turn, the Runner decides in which order the effects will be resolved. The Runner will almost always choose to resolve Femme Fatale first, bypassing the ICE and negating the ability of the now-bypassed "when you encounter" ability to resolve.

Here's the full e-mail conversation I had with Lukas regarding Femme Fatale and Data Raven/Tollbooth:

Me: "Femme Fatale is attached to Data Raven or Tollbooth. The Runner hits Data Raven/Tollbooth. Does the on-encounter effect of the ICE go off if the Runner pays to bypass the ICE with Femme Fatale, given that Femme Fatale requires the ICE to be encountered before it can take effect?"

Lukas: "Both Femme Fatale and the ice have a conditional ability with the same trigger condition (the Runner encountering the ice). As such, the Runner will decide the order of resolution since it is his or her turn. If the Runner chooses to resolve Femme Fatale's ability first and pays to bypass, then the ice is bypassed and the second effect will not resolve."

Lukas: "A quick correction. The Runner does not actually have a choice in this situation about the order of resolution (since only one of the abilities is the Runner's)."

Me: "So, to make sure I understand properly: Femme Fatale, if the credit cost is paid, does bypass the Data Raven or Tollbooth's on-encounter effect, because in cases of simultaneous effects during a Run, the Runner's cards have priority?"

Lukas: "That is correct. This is covered under "Simultaneous Effects" on page 22 of the rulebook."

This seems to confirm that the intent of Femme Fatale is to bypass the entire ICE and not just the subroutines. Combined with the prior ruling regarding Chum, it seems that the situation in the OP is, indeed, 1c/2b.

This is another 'can of worms' been opened due to non-consistancy. When you don't 'Jack out' after passing an ICE, and obviously at the first ICE which you have to encounter, you 'Encounter' the ICE which the Corp can 'Rez' if appropriate. Surely you then deal with the ICE in 3 ways (so far). 'Break the Routines' with Icebreakers, 'Take the effect of Routines' by not breaking, or 'Bypass' the whole ICE with things like 'Femme Fatale'. Simple!!!

If the intent was for 'Bypassing' to not even 'Encounter' the ICE, this should have been stated clearly and be consistant. I see this leading to more problems in the future. Common sense tells you that you have to 'Encounter' something to be able to deal with it, and if 'Bypassing' is an exception to dealing with encountered ICE, is must be stated. Cheers!

I think the main reason that "bypass" has become an issue is that the only two places that it appears are on Femme Fatale and Inside Job, and not in the rulebook, therefore there's nowhere that we can point to say "this is what this term means in context." That said, it seems that the closest inference we can make as to its meaning, based on the answers we've received from Lukas, is:

Bypass: Take no effects from text on a piece of ICE.

This definition allows the effects of Femme Fatale and Chum to occur as per the answers given by Lukas. The target ICE is neutered and can do nothing (hence no Data Raven or Tollbooth on-encounter effects). However, as the ICE has been encountered, and the Chum subroutine is not on the targeted ICE, it is not negated by Femme Fatale's (or any future Icebreaker's) bypass, and works as designed. If the ICE has any subroutines, Chum deals damage.

Inside Job isn't affected by this whole can of worms in any case; Chum can never apply to it and it seems to me that was never any doubt as to its intended effects.

HikariStarshine said:

I think the main reason that "bypass" has become an issue is that the only two places that it appears are on Femme Fatale and Inside Job, and not in the rulebook, therefore there's nowhere that we can point to say "this is what this term means in context." That said, it seems that the closest inference we can make as to its meaning, based on the answers we've received from Lukas, is:

Bypass: Take no effects from text on a piece of ICE.

This definition allows the effects of Femme Fatale and Chum to occur as per the answers given by Lukas. The target ICE is neutered and can do nothing (hence no Data Raven or Tollbooth on-encounter effects). However, as the ICE has been encountered, and the Chum subroutine is not on the targeted ICE, it is not negated by Femme Fatale's (or any future Icebreaker's) bypass, and works as designed. If the ICE has any subroutines, Chum deals damage.

Inside Job isn't affected by this whole can of worms in any case; Chum can never apply to it and it seems to me that was never any doubt as to its intended effects.

I'm curious what you mean by the last sentence (the one that I bolded). Why would Inside Job never apply to it? Inside Job, just like Femme Fatale, also has to encounter the ICE before it can bypass it.

Hmm….unless you mean that since Inside Job bypasses the first ICE only, the only way it would have anything to do with Chum would be if Chum was the first ICE installed on the server. And since it is bypassing Chum, the subroutine in question would never be triggered. That does make sense.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, would everyone here consider Inside Job's ability to bypass an encounter ICE a (required) Conditional Ability? Or a Constant Ability?

Butaman551 said:

HikariStarshine said:

I think the main reason that "bypass" has become an issue is that the only two places that it appears are on Femme Fatale and Inside Job, and not in the rulebook, therefore there's nowhere that we can point to say "this is what this term means in context." That said, it seems that the closest inference we can make as to its meaning, based on the answers we've received from Lukas, is:

Bypass: Take no effects from text on a piece of ICE.

This definition allows the effects of Femme Fatale and Chum to occur as per the answers given by Lukas. The target ICE is neutered and can do nothing (hence no Data Raven or Tollbooth on-encounter effects). However, as the ICE has been encountered, and the Chum subroutine is not on the targeted ICE, it is not negated by Femme Fatale's (or any future Icebreaker's) bypass, and works as designed. If the ICE has any subroutines, Chum deals damage.

Inside Job isn't affected by this whole can of worms in any case; Chum can never apply to it and it seems to me that was never any doubt as to its intended effects.

I'm curious what you mean by the last sentence (the one that I bolded). Why would Inside Job never apply to it? Inside Job, just like Femme Fatale, also has to encounter the ICE before it can bypass it.

Hmm….unless you mean that since Inside Job bypasses the first ICE only, the only way it would have anything to do with Chum would be if Chum was the first ICE installed on the server. And since it is bypassing Chum, the subroutine in question would never be triggered. That does make sense.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, would everyone here consider Inside Job's ability to bypass an encounter ICE a (required) Conditional Ability? Or a Constant Ability?

You've worked it out correctly, yes. Inside Job's bypass will never have to deal with Chum, simply because Chum can't possibly be any farther out than the first ICE installed on the server… so it certainly won't be listening for the first ICE on the server to have its subroutines not broken. :)

Rashley said:

This is another 'can of worms' been opened due to non-consistancy. When you don't 'Jack out' after passing an ICE, and obviously at the first ICE which you have to encounter, you 'Encounter' the ICE which the Corp can 'Rez' if appropriate. Surely you then deal with the ICE in 3 ways (so far). 'Break the Routines' with Icebreakers, 'Take the effect of Routines' by not breaking, or 'Bypass' the whole ICE with things like 'Femme Fatale'. Simple!!!

If the intent was for 'Bypassing' to not even 'Encounter' the ICE, this should have been stated clearly and be consistant. I see this leading to more problems in the future. Common sense tells you that you have to 'Encounter' something to be able to deal with it, and if 'Bypassing' is an exception to dealing with encountered ICE, is must be stated. Cheers!

When you don't jack out after passing an ice (or if you're just starting a run), you actually "approach" the ice first. It's at that point that the corp can rez the ice (and/or other cards and/or play special abilities). If the ice is rezzed, then you "encounter" the ice.

Ran into an interesting offshoot of this problem last game.

I was using "Inside Job" to do a run on the corp's HQ. The outermost layer of ICE was Shadow, and after that was Cell Portal.

So using Inside Job, I bypassed the first ICE, hit the second. I had no ICE breaker that could get past it, and hit its subroutines of sending me back to the first (and de-rezzing the cell portal).

The question at this point is do I actually now encounter the first piece of ICE, the Shadow, or do I keep continuing on because I have still bypassed it?

I think you'd have to deal with Shadow at that point. It's still the "outermost" piece of ice, but I don't think you can call it the "first".

KommissarK said:

Ran into an interesting offshoot of this problem last game.

I was using "Inside Job" to do a run on the corp's HQ. The outermost layer of ICE was Shadow, and after that was Cell Portal.

So using Inside Job, I bypassed the first ICE, hit the second. I had no ICE breaker that could get past it, and hit its subroutines of sending me back to the first (and de-rezzing the cell portal).

The question at this point is do I actually now encounter the first piece of ICE, the Shadow, or do I keep continuing on because I have still bypassed it?

Inside Job is referring to the first piece of ice encountered this run. After you have encountered it and then encounter it again it is now the third piece of ice encountered this run.

Now if inside job said something like bypass the outermost piece of ice that would be different and you would bypass it again.