im just wondering as the wording on quest for vengeance has "the next attack you play with speed 2 or less gets plus 2 speed" would this ability stack or not because ive heard mixed veiws

Yes and no. The condition must be met for the ability to resolve.

If you enhance with two of them, the attack deals damage, then you play a 3 speed attack, it'll get +2 from one of them, but once that resolves, it no longer meets the condition for the second to apply. You could then play another 3 speed attack and it'll get the other +2.

But, if you play a 1 speed attack, it'll get both +2's.

Tagrineth said:

It isn't met? A card is considered played when the control check has been made yes? When the control check has been made, if the attack has 3 speed or less, it should be able to get the damage pumps from however many Quest for Vengeances you have, since at the time of it's playing it was still a 3 speed (or less) attack.

Quest for Vengeance won't add the speed pump if the attack hasn't already been played, so one QfV giving a speed pump shouldn't have an impact on whether another will give a pump to an attack or not.

I agree with cascade. After you play the attack if it as 3 speed or less you can apply all the speed pumps because the reference is after an attack is played.

but they still resolve one at a time so after the first resolves if the condition for the second isnt met then it wont happen yet

Ziephnir said:

This, right here. One Quest for Vengeance effect will see teh 3 speed attack. Give it +2 speed. The next QfV effect will look at the attack, see a 5 speed attack, and ignore it.

They don't all see the 3 speed attack at the same time and try to resolve at the same time.

in fact, nothing in this game happens "at the same time" when it comes to resolving abilities

Tagrineth said:

I'm not saying these things all resolve at the same time, I'm saying that since Quest for Vengeance states "next attack you play" then it is concerned with the attack only when it is played, at which point it is a 3-speed or less attack. I believe this card is referencing the printed speed (I know it doesn't say printed, don't point that out)

Quest for Vengeance, even if there were multiple of them, should look at the attack and think "When it was played, which I am concerned about, it had 3 or less speed, time for work". QfV will then give the attack +2 speed. The next QfV will then think "Hey, that guy just gave that attack +2 speed, was it a 3-speed or less attack when it was played (before he did that)? It was? Time for work" etc.

I suppose the general gist of my argument is this:

An attack with 3-printed speed that gets a +2 speed pump does not become a 5-printed speed attack. I believe QfV is referencing the printed speed upon playing even though it doesn't feature the word.

lets take a 3 speed attack. i play it and then the floating effects start going

it doesnt see if the attack fufills the conditions until the floating effect starts resolving, so the first one starts resolving and it see it as a 3 or less speed attack and pumps it. the second one then comes in to check if its condition is met when it starts resolving and at that time its not a 3 or less speed attack anymore.

since it infact does not say printed and it doesnt say "if this attack had 3 or less speed when you played it " then the condition is not met for the second effect when it matters

the trigger for the resolving is when the attack is played, which is not mentioned at all when it checks if the correct situation is setup

i agree with cascade it says your next attack with 3 or less speed sort of insinuates printed

Ziephnir said:

you're exxing out the reasons saying theyre not enough

it works that way because of the way the game handles effects

and so your basically argueing what a card should say instead of what it says

I think what the problem is....is that people think that the quest for vengances abilities trigger at the same time......they dont..

say i play an attack and enhance it with 3 different quest for vengances....ok it deals damage and the quest for vengance can now go into effect on my next attack....

I play the attack...lets say its a 1 speed attack..once played the first quest for vengance goes into effect and gives the attack +2 speed making it now 3 speed

since that ability has now resolved then the next one can trigger giving the attack another plus 2 speed since its still 3 speed or less......once that one resolves its on to the next one since there were 3 effects used.....however once that effect goes to be applied it sees a 5 speed attack and cant be applied since it doesnt met the requirements anymore

basically no effect resolve at the same time its all one after another and each effect checks the state of the game before it resolves

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

*STAMP*STAMP*STAMP*

first ever triplestamp issued. ever. this is exactly the order of resolution.

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

I'm not arguing that multiple QfVs trigger at the same time, I'm arguing that QfV should trigger upon a 3 or less speed attack being played and screw what happens after that. I don't think that QfV's effect has any affect an whether or not another one should activate, I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I believe that since the text features the words "next attack you PLAY" then QfV is only concerned with the attack when it's played, before any floating effects start resolving (alright fair enough, I'm partially concerned with the trigger point). Regardless of what happens after it I believe that if a 3 or less speed attack is played then the conditions are met, the effect of 1 QfV shouldn't affect another's activation. They can resolve all at once or in sequence, it doesn't matter, I don't believe that they get in the way of each other.

Ziephnir said:

I think the argument being made here is similar to that of waterfalls momentum and you not being able to play multiple of them because the act of playing one closes the trigger.

What hes trying to say is that the trigger is that an attack is played and has 3 or less speed and that all floating effects and responses should not care about what the trigger becomes, rather what it was when it happened. And I am inclined to agree with that personally, just like i felt that waterfalls momentum was ruled wrong forever ago and that playing another card shouldnt close the trigger. That is however the standing ruling and precident. Windows of oppurtuntiy do infact close in this game as do triggers.

lemme add to that the fact that you play an attack that is 3 speed or less which fufills the requirements of the quest for vengance. after its played anything that affects its speed is past the window of "play", or at least I think could be interperted that way. Otherwords its not looking for something in play, its looking for when its played.

Meh this argument confuses me

Well I decided that the rather low possibility of me actually running QfV makes continuing this pointless, especially since I've just had a death in the family. So until I think up some more points, I'll concede the argument to Tag/Gouhadou and abide by their rulings and the points they made.

As for you Ziephnir, you just copied what Tag said and never made a point of your own, so kindly remove yourself from this thread and go do some thinking.

Sigh.

However, IN THEORY, let's say you DO enhance with three Quest for Vengeance, and then play an attack with a printed speed of 3. Obviously, Quest sees it's a 3 or less, and pumps it; the other copies can't. Theoretically, if you were to play ANOTHER attack with a speed of 3 or less, the other copies of Quest would still try to resolve their floating effects, even though you only played them on your very first attack of the turn.

In theory.

It's still no different than, say, Reverse Flayer. You choose the order in which the floating effects resolve, so Reverse Flayer, whose trigger is the same (attack being played) can resolve after a bunch of other "when played" effects. The card is still played. But since the window of "attack is played' is still open at the time when QfV is attempting to resolve, it's no longer possible for multiple copies of its effect to resolve once the attack's speed hit 4+, because while it is still an attack being played, it's no longer an attack with a speed of three or less that is being played.

I think. I'm actually going to wait on a response on that first theory, in particular...

I have a related pt to state/Q to ask:

I haven't check the actual text, but if it was quoted correctly, then isn't the trigger window never really shut down until end turn? The card says "the next attack you played with a speed of X or less...", to me, thats different from "after you played your next attack, if the attack has a speed of X or less...."

Suppose after I play the 3 speed attack and the 1st QfV effect trigger and resolved, the 2nd QfV effect trigger but the condition did not fulfill so it hasn't resolved. After that, I play another 3 speed attack and the 2nd QfV effect trigger again and the condition met so the effect resolve, right? Similar situation is the 1st attack I played after I played the 2 QfV effects is a 6 speed attack, the 2 QfV floating effect trigger and the condition did not met and not resolved, then I play another attack with a 3 speed, now the 2 QfV effects never resolved will trigger again... until the end of the turn or the effect resolved... Could it be like that?

If my interpretation is right, then I think if I play a 3 speed attack, only 1 QfV effect trigger and resolved, then my opponent E: reduced the attack speed back to the print speed, now the 2nd QfV effect can trigger and resolved, right?

Thanks.

yes, Goose and Kin, that's how it would work.

the extra floating abilities will continue to float until the turn expires, or the conditions are met by another attack played later in the turn.

How does Quest for Vengeance work in relation to Feelings of Friendship?