That said, the A-Wing is clearly too big, regardless of whose measurements were used.

No it is exactly the right size for a 1/270 scale ship using the canon measurements. They're also the correct size based on A-Wings from Rebels.

The G1-A is a big offender, in my opinion. I think the size of the ship is fine*, but the design of that huge cockpit is ridiculous, considering the size of the pilots inside.

And where does that put Slave I on the ridiculous scale!

:s

I thought the canopy on Slave 1 was not the cockup but a window covering three decks. Originally I thought it looked weird, okay it still does. But now that I understand it at least it makes better sense.

I thought the canopy on Slave 1 was not the cockup but a window covering three decks.

It does. While even then it may look weird, that's on ILM's model builders.

That said, the A-Wing is clearly too big, regardless of whose measurements were used.

No it is exactly the right size for a 1/270 scale ship using the canon measurements. They're also the correct size based on A-Wings from Rebels.

So, since we've already seen people above post the comparison of how the Rebels A-Wing and the RotJ A-Wing are clearly different sizes, what I'm hearing is that we have A-Wings from Rebels but our FFG ships are not the ones from RotJ (and presumably Episode 8 based on Prince Harry) since those ships are smaller relative to their pilots.

So, basically, the A-Wings in the films are wrong. Cool. But maybe you can understand why many of us have long held that the FFG A-Wing was too large relative to the A-Wings we saw in RotJ (since for many of us that was a more central and core part of cannon than a children's cartoon that hadn't even been in pre-production yet when Wave 2 released). Sheesh.

Also, Rebels is a weird source for actual scale, since it's explicitly taken cartoonish aesthetic license in it's animation. Look at the "giraffe" style representation of the Star Destroyers or the oddly stout proportion for TIE Fighters. OMG, do you see how big Sabine's eye-to-face ratio is compared to Princess Leia's eye-to-face ratio in Empire Strikes Back????? Comeon, it's a cartoon and it's intentionally made things cartoonish because that's what makes for a nice cartoon aesthetic. But don't sit here and say Rebels A-Wings are "right" and RotJ and Episode 8 A-Wings are "wrong." WTF?

So, basically, the A-Wings in the films are wrong.

Maybe, but maybe we just don't have accurate measurements for how big they are supposed to be. Because there's like one image everyone uses to base the size on and we don't know if that model was proper scale or not.

But maybe you can understand why many of us have long held that the FFG A-Wing was too large relative to the A-Wings we saw in RotJ

It again doesn't matter because FFG had to use the LFL canon sizes. I frankly cannot understand how this is such a hard concept for some people to grasp.

I don't care in the least what the "proper" size for an A-Wing is based on RotJ. As far as this game goes the only thing that matters is canon size.

I don't care in the least what the "proper" size for an A-Wing is based on RotJ. As far as this game goes the only thing that matters is canon size.

Yea, so? We're simply saying that CANON SIZE IS WRONG.

Jeez, why is that so hard for you Scale Apologists to understand? We agree that FFG had to use the LFL number. But we are saying that the numbers FFG had to use are wrong, despite being the value that FLF has generated as canon size. That A-Wings (as per the films) aren't actually that freaking big. Why do you keep bringing it back to "FFG HAD TO USE THE LFF NUMBER." Yes, we get it. That doesn't make the LFL number right, though. That's what the whole discussion is about: is the LFL number right? Goodness.

The Scale Apologists do not say "here's evidence as to why RotJ and Ep8 A-Wings actually are the size LFL says they are in cannon." That's the case that needs to be made to justify the LFL canon number, since so many pieces of RotJ and Ep8 evidence seem to point against it. Yet no one defending the A-Wing scale ever points to anything except Rebels , which didn't even exist when LFL came up with their canon measurements or when Wave 2 was printed.

tl;dr: LFL's numbers for the A-Wing are wrong. That's the point. No one is arguing that said number isn't the official value generated by LFL or given to FFG. But that doesn't make it correct. It just makes it an official, yet wrong, value.

Is the LFL number right?

In regards to this game, it doesn't matter. If you want to argue if the LFL canon stats is correct or not, then that argument should be in Off Topic, not here because if the LFL canon size matches up to what you think it should be based on RotJ doesn't matter in the least.

The A-Wing is the correct size for a 1/270 scale model based on the canon numbers. As far as X-Wing the game goes, that is the only thing that matters.

Perhaps you just don't get the concept of canon... Perhaps you just want to yell at people with a different opinion but either way I'm done. Because it's clear from your posts you aren't interested in a discussion, you only want to ram your opinion on the matter down everyone's throat. Even going as far as to use ad hominem attacks on anyone who dares to not agree with you.

Because never once did I say you were wrong about the RotJ size, I frankly don't care in the least what the proper size based on one movie is. Especially when if it's a recon or whatever, they changed the official size of them, and have so far been true to that canon size.

Is the LFL number right?

Canon size cannot be wrong. It's canon.

Why can't it?

If the US Census determines the population of Topeka Kansas in 2013 is 127,679 that's the official population. But in determining that number, people actually had to add up responses and make inferences and extrapolations about the actual size of the population based on the data that was available. Maybe they made an error in their math or their models are not very good predictors. Maybe a different sampling group concludes that the population is 128.576. The census number is the official number used, the "canon number." But that doesn't make it necessarily right. The actual population of Tokeka Kansas doesn't care what the official census number is, as it's dependent on the actual reality out there -- the number of actual people that actually have Topeka as a permanent residence. It just turns out that in reality that's a difficult thing to calculate, but it doesn't mean we should always just be ready to accept whatever number appears in some recordbook--because maybe there was an error in determining it. We evaluate that official number by how well--or how poorly--it accurately counts the number of people.

In a not entirely dissimilar way, LFL had to generate numbers for the official size of an A-Wing in the same way that fans did -- by using the few bits of evidence from RotJ, including props, sets, and onscreen evidence and then making interpretations and abstractions. Some of those bits of evidence they had to work with were in slight contradiction with one another or of variable "canon strength" (e.g. a matte painting set background, dogfight film models, and cockpit canopies for pilot shots). Either way, all of those things suggest an A-Wing much smaller than what LFL calculated. Why is LFL's number automatically the truth? Can't they have gotten something wrong, just like you're arguing that all the fans who are calculating a smaller number have gotten something wrong?

Surely, if LFL had said that Star Destroyes were 200 feet long it wouldn't suddenly make it "true." What makes it "true" is how well it corresponds to the fictional reality established in the Star Wars property. While we can't go out into the actual real work and count physical real people (like we might for a census), we can look at the fictional world (e.g. film( to attempt to have values that best correspond to it.

Stop feeding the troll.

Is the LFL number right?

Canon size cannot be wrong. It's canon.

Why can't it?

I would say you have a different understanding of what canon is than most people. Additionally your reference to the census further proves that you don't fully grasp its meaning. I hate to get all simplistic but the census is data that is measurable and the bureau makes an effort to keep its data correct to the facts.

Canon is defined by the deciding body and actually has little to do with facts or anything else beyond their own opinion. You could argue that canon does not match what you perceive the A-Wing size to be in RotJ and you may have a point. But many have shown that the props used in movies came in a variety of sizes and scales. Often built for the shot the director wanted to make. You picking one scene in light of that is a bit foolish, just take a look at the Falcon shot with the actors legs dangling outside the cockpit. Why aren't you upset about the Falcon's size or that the people are the wrong scale? Because you pick what you perceive is right and wrong and choose to ignore the facts. As for your persistence in this I cannot summize. The facts are the deciding body, LFL, gets to determine the correct size. Nowhere does it have to match anything. It might be nice if it always did but that isn't going to happen.

Your argument is not too dissimilar to the people who argue the HWK-290 is too small based on WEG's dimensions. Yes it is true that WEG had/has the ship in their game and published different dimensions and such. But someone's fondness of WEG or a non-canon size of the HWK-290 does not make it correct regardless of how many times they go on.

Something you might consider is that perhaps the A-Wing size from the movie is wrong. It is just too small for missiles; hyper-drive; life-support, etc. LFL might know this and has corrected their mistake, Retcon if you will. You might disagree with their decision but they are the ones who determine the official size. Personally I'm on the side that the A-Wings we currently have in the game and on Rebels is the correct size. The size you suggest is far to small to be functional, from my limited point of view. But that's me.

[Edited only for spellin']

I can't believe I actually read part of this. This thread has been alive for four years. Umm. Like the song says: let it go. Let it go. Let the four winds blow.

Well. Something like that.

tiepilot1138 said:

"During the production process, we were surprised to discover that the official dimensions for some of the ships did not match our pre-existing expectations of their relative sizes."

Anyone else wish they could get their hands on these models and have a go at playing X-wing at this scale? I DO!

God bless the 70s. Bell bottoms these days, they are never quite in scale, always a little too small.

And in this game, it is all about cannon size. The bigger the cannon, the more dice get rolled.

tiepilot1138 said:

"During the production process, we were surprised to discover that the official dimensions for some of the ships did not match our pre-existing expectations of their relative sizes."

Anyone else wish they could get their hands on these models and have a go at playing X-wing at this scale? I DO!

God bless the 70s. Bell bottoms these days, they are never quite in scale, always a little too small.

And in this game, it is all about cannon size. The bigger the cannon, the more dice get rolled.

Insert death star laser target painter cannon upgrade that costs 20 points, but you get to roll 20 attack dice and cancel 2 evade results...

tiepilot1138 said:

"During the production process, we were surprised to discover that the official dimensions for some of the ships did not match our pre-existing expectations of their relative sizes."

Anyone else wish they could get their hands on these models and have a go at playing X-wing at this scale? I DO!

God bless the 70s. Bell bottoms these days, they are never quite in scale, always a little too small.

And in this game, it is all about cannon size. The bigger the cannon, the more dice get rolled.

I'm more entranced by this dude's epic 'stache.

tiepilot1138 said:

"During the production process, we were surprised to discover that the official dimensions for some of the ships did not match our pre-existing expectations of their relative sizes."

Anyone else wish they could get their hands on these models and have a go at playing X-wing at this scale? I DO!

God bless the 70s. Bell bottoms these days, they are never quite in scale, always a little too small.

And in this game, it is all about cannon size. The bigger the cannon, the more dice get rolled.

I'm more entranced by this dude's epic 'stache.

Look man....

It was the 70's...

Let's leave it at that.