Hey guys,

Simple question really. Can you use your reaction in melee to fire your ballistic mechadendrite considering that it's a pistol?

I had an idea, as a secutor, which involved loading the bolt pistol mechadendrite with HDP's, spending my reaction to shoot once to try and knock the target down, then swift attack with my breacher.

I'd say yes. Aaaargh post too short must write something more!

Sounds legit enough to me. It is a pistol class weapon, so nothing really in the way.

Still, I'm fairly disappointed with how the rules for Ballistic Mechadendrites are still murky with the how the rules for reactions work.

By RAW, reactions cannot be used on your own turn (this causes key things like not being able to dodge/parry free attacks when moving out of combat with disengage, and not being able to dodge/parry counterattacks). So the fact that people apparently can spend reactions to fire ballistic mechadendrites just seems off. Still, allowing the fire not on the PCs turn seems even more out of place.

You would need both Two Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) and Two Weapon Wielder (Melee) in order to use both kind of weapons, but if you do you can treat your mechadendrite as your off-hand.

But isn't that more for if he is just trying to use the mechadendrite weapon as an off hand attack in melee? The justification here seems to be "I shoot with my reaction, then use my full round to swift attack"

I've taken the wording of the ballistic mechadendrite to mean I can shoot in place of dodging when I'm attacked. It kind of makes sense as It acts as a deterrent for targetting him because he can't dodge.

As the shot happens outside my turn I would then be able to attack normally. Does that sound like a good interpretation of the rule?

It also lets you keep the shot in store for if you don't get attacked. turn about over? things 'bout to be refreshed? Last target up shooting something else? Wrath Plasma off your dendrite.

Just saw the servo claw in the lathes book.

Not too bothered about using the ballistic mechadendrite in melee now…

You can only make one attack-action each round, so if you make an attack with your Reaction out of your turn, then you cannot make an attack on your own Turn.

Likewise, if you make attacks on your own turn you can no longer use your mechadendrites for attacks later in the round.

'tis a bit silly methinks, but such are the RAW

Bad enough that the "regardless of any other actions you might be taking" on the Weapon-MIU was errata'd into "no, you can't fire it along with another weapon, ha ha"; at least it lets you freely fire on the run or while reloading or doing something else, but that interpretation would render the dendrites completely useless. They basically exist solely to fire or stab as a reaction.

Plus, you're breaking no rule when firing it as a reaction, as it no longer is your turn. Pretty sure I remember an FAQ regarding that actually…

I know these decisions are made for game balance purposes, but I always thought it a bit constrained that if you manifest a Psychic power as a half action, you are then free to Move, or reload, or do pretty much anything else with your remaining half-action, but you may NOT fire your laspistol at anyone.

That's exactly how I would have understood it. The reaction is a special attack outside of normal attack rules.. Why would the ballistic mechandrite have the text "but it can only be fired once per round" if you can only make one attack with it OR your main weapon anyway. That would make no sense.

If it could only be used as a reaction instead of attacking on your turn (relying on the chance of someone attacking you to actually trigger the reaction) it'd be completely broken and worthless.

As a reaction it doesn't have to be from being attacked. You can react to a target moving, standing still, shooting something else, pleasuring itself, whatever, far as I can tell.

I've seen people say that. But I don't think it's true. A reaction is a defensive action. It doesn't make sense to allow a tech priest to get another free attack at any time. it does make sense however to allow him to counter attack instead of dodging.

The way our group plays it is that you are allowed to use it only on your turn once per round. So

- If your reaction was spent before your turn (for example by dodging) then you cannot use your mechadendrite in this round.

- If you use your mechadendrite you cannot use another reaction until the end of the round.

I think that it is a fair interpertation of the rule. The mechadentrite is not subject to the "one attack per round" rule so it is basically a free attack, but at the expense of not being able to dodge or parry for the rest of the round or not being able to use it if you have already used your reaction to dodge or parry.

Marshbaboon said:

It allows you to expend your reaction for the effect, but there's no specific trigger to it. This means the only restriction is that it cannot be on your turn, since unlike the extra attack from all-out's talents it isn't stated you can do that. Overall, its nothing but a compact or micro-weapon pistol's shot anyways.

While the rules do state that reactions can only be used on your turn, the whole point of Talents is to break or bend the rules.

Take a look at the Furious Assault Talent: it allows you to use your reaction (on your turn) to make an extra attack. The Ballistic Mechadendrite basically works the same way: you give up or spend your reaction to make an attack. I don't see why you couldn't choose to do that on your turn, giving up the possibility of dodging or parrying until your next turn.

As for whether you can use it as part of an attack action, that's a but trickier.

We allow it only as part of a Full Action (basically, the same way you might treat Furious Assault - All-Out-Attack is a full round action.) That way, you are (technically) only taking a single attack 'action' ("Multiple Attacks" action) that happens to include multiple attacks. (Similar to the Two-Weapon style, for instance). Alternately, if the character makes no other attack actions in the round, they can choose to spend their reaction to make an attack, giving up their reaction until their next turn.

It's worked fine for us and hasn't been unbalancing at all.

You have that backwards. You can only use your reaction when it isn't your turn. This is to prevent you from dodging something that hasn't happened. The only time you can use your reaction on your turn is in the cases of those exceptions you listed.

DJSunhammer said:

I think we're saying the same thing, but I interpret the Mechadendrite's ability to shoot as a reaction as similar to Furious Assault.

But along the same lines, could you dodge or parry a counter-attack (which would mean using your reaction on your turn)? A strict interpretation of the rules would seem to suggest that you couldn't (because it's not your turn) but I don't see how it would be unbalancing: you're still giving up one of your reaction until the start of your next turn, meaning if your opponent attack you on the next turn you'd have one fewer reaction available to avoid the attack.

I guess I'm just saying that I'd allow it.

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm saying you typed it wrong. "While the rules do state that reactions can only be used on your turn" is literally the exact opposite of what the rules say. I know what you mean, but the way you have written it could be confusing.

DJSunhammer said:

I reread it a couple of times and it says exactly what I mean to say: you can only use reactions on your turn. Either way, it IS clear we're both on the same page.

Does anybody have an opinion on my follow-up question: would you allow a character to use their reaction to dodge a counter-attack even if it occured on their turn?

Macharias the Mendicant said:

Nope, in my opinion the counter attack is some advanced technique that takes it advanted out of your own attack. So while you attack, they parry and attack you. This all happens in just a moment. There is no time to realise that your attack failed because your enemy instantly takes his benefit from it so you cant counter attack. Its somewhat like the same action if you ask me. You cant make two actions in the same time just like attacking and dodging. His counter-attack is the same action ans your attack.

An if you COULD parry a Counter Attack, then you could counter the counter attack also. Ad infinitum. It would just be silly, two warriors exchanging countless blows in what is really just a few seconds.

That would only be the case if both participants had unlimited parries available to them. I'm not aware that that's possible. 9if it is, then I haven't come across it.) And using up all of your reactions vs. one opponent could cost you if you're fighintg multiple attackers.