To let you snipe with pistols, think a more takedown rifle and easy to transport, I like it

Yeah, Mauser C96 style, which was the only thing missing to 40k to make it Victorian epic

Uh, aren't the power packs for dueling laser pistols ALREADY Hot Shot packs? Like they are specific customized hot shot packs -- that is why they are only one shot??

They use specific packs for themselves, which means they aren't capable of multiple ammo types and thus you cannot fire-selector one of them.

However, you'll probably be better off using said selector to shove two hot-shot cartridges into a fire-select for a mars-pattern command pistol.

This is the best as I can figure for what is good or not…

Assumptions: Extended Magazine costs 10 more per magazine, increasing ammo cost. Solid Slugs is 1 for 15. Plasma Grenade costs 100. Hellgun Capacitors (the smaller kind) cost 50 for one backpack, for any hellgun style. You can silence/suppress Shotguns, regardless of what the rules say, cause that is possible, but difficult, in real life, and apparently you can suppresse large caliber hunting/sniper rifles in this game, too. Extended Magazines can be combined with Duplus Clips, but not a Fire Selector. Only doing one full ammunition load for the example weapons, under the assumption that if you can buy one full ammunition load, you can get more ammo. You can't Duplus or Extended Magazine a Hellgun Capacitor. You don't want to put lots of things, like melee attachments, knives, or Exterminators, at the end of a sniper rifle (anything with at least 150 range and Accurate). Expander Rounds cost 5 for 6. You can upgrade an existing integrated melee weapon on a firearm to a mono variant for the mono price. You can put duplus clips in a Hellgun that can fire normal charge packs. Maglev Impeller Upgrade costs 150, and puts coils around the barrel of a weapon, making it a hybrid coilgun/solid penetrator weapon. Hellguns that can use normal charge packs get no benefit from Overcharge packs. The full sized backpack ammo pack is 100, and gives between 120-150 for most hellguns, and 200 for solid penetrator and boltguns. A Photo Sight costs 200, and can be put on top of a Telescopic Sight, but you can only benefit from one at a time. You can benefit from an optical sight and a red dot at the same time. The cheapest bolt ammunition is an Acid Bolt, which replaces the explosive with an acid, and it costs 8 per unit. An ammo backpack for a weapon that uses both electric (as in laser charge pack) and solid penetrating ammunition has half the total number of each that it would normally have.

*Up to Common, and under 100 Thrones:

Steadholder Lever Gun (60) + Silencer (10) + Bullets (.3/clip). Total: 70.3

or

Talon mk III Autopistol (70) + 30 round mag option + Silencer (10) + Bullets (1.5/clip). Total: 81.5

*Up to Average, under 150 Thrones:

Armageddon pattern Autogun (100) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Silencer (10) + Bullets (.75/clip). Total: 145.75

or:

Anoxis Pattern Stingray Rifle (100) + Melee Attachment (25) + Knife (5) + Basic Charge Pack (15/pack). Total: 145.

*Up to Average, Under 350 Thrones:

Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Solid Slugs (1/clip) + Telescopic Sight (35). Total: 336.

*Up to Scarce, Under 350 Thrones:

Death Light Sollex Lasgun (if you can make it to Magnogorsk) 250 + Telescopic Sight (35) + Melee Attachment (5) + Knife (5) + Basic Charge Pack (15/pack, 2 for 30) + Duplus Clips (10). Total: 335

or:

Minerva-Aegis Las Carbine (150) + Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) w/Mono Upgrade (40) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50) + Basic Overcharge Pack (15/pack). Total: 335.

*Up to Rare, Under 600 Thrones:

Voss Hellgun (180) + Basic charge packs (15/pack, two for 30) + Duplex Ammo Clips (10) + Melee Attachment 5 + Combat Knife 40 w/Mono Upgrade 40 + Telescopic Sight 35 + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Gunmetal Solid mk III grenade (10). Total: 600.

or:

*D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (if you can make it to the Lathes) (500) + Basic charge packs (15/pack) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot Laser (50). Total: 600.

or

Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Solid Slugs (1.2/clip, for 2.4) + Silencer (10) + Extended Magazine (10, x2 for 20) + Duplus Clips (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35). Total: 452.4.

*Up to Very Rare, Under 1000 Thrones

D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (300) + Hellgun Capacitor (50) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot laser (50)+ Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) with Mono Upgrade (40) + Auxilary Grenade Launcher (250) + Plasma Grenade (100) + Exterminator (35). Total: 905

or

Pax Factorem Rifle (750) + Expander Rounds (5 for 6, x2 for 12) + Extended Magazine (20) + Duplus Ammo Clips (10) + Silencer (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 887.

or

Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Solid Slugs (1.2/clip, for 2.4) + Silencer (10) + Extended Magazine (10, x2 for 20) + Duplus Clips (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35) + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Plasma Grenade (100) + Maglev Impeller (150) + Basic Charge Pack (15/pack). Total: 967.

*Up to Very Rare, Under 1500 Thrones.

*Pax Factorem Rifle (750) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Expander Rounds (166.67) + Silencer (10) + Photo Sight (200) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 1311.67

*Good Quality (600) D'Laku Crusade Hellgun (300) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Red dot laser (50)+ Melee Attachment (5) + Combat Knife (40) with Mono Upgrade (40) + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher (250) + Thermal Grenade (60). Total: 1480.

*Good Quailty (600) Skitarii Vanaheim Assault Shotgun (300) + Ammo Backpack (100) + Solid Slugs (6.67 for 100) + Silencer (10) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Mono Upgrade for existing bayonet (40) + Exterminator (35) + Maglev Impeller (150) + Photo Sight (200). Total: 1476.67.

*Scourge Boltgun (650) + Bolt Shells (24, at 16 each, for 384) + Telescopic Sight (35) + Exterminator (35) + Photo Sight (200) + Melee Attachment (5) + Chain Knife (80) + Red Dot Laser (50). Total: 1439.

Hmmm. It looks to me that Boltguns aren't even remotely worth it… Ammo is just too absurdly expensive. If you want anti-armor, get a weapon with an auxiliary grenade launcher, and put a krak or plasma or inferno thermal grenade in it.

Bolt weapons have always been a matter of supply chain. They're prohibitively expensive, but cost should not be the only thing you look at.

A Bolt weapon carried as a primary or obvious sidearm says a lot about the owner, if in remotely decent condition. It says "I have the backing and support I need to use this thing the way you use a laspistol". Private ownership of even bolt pistols is something best left to high nobility and Rogue Traders.

One of the most powerful weapons you can get in just the pure DH list is the Xenarch Death-Arc. 2750 and Very Rare. After shields and dodging, all of your individual hits get added up, striking but once against Armour and Toughness Bonus. That makes it very bad at shocking [just one roll eh? Combine with Weapon Tech and mighty-shot, and all of a sudden your Xeno-Tesla slags a Russ from the front in seconds.

If the Mag Accelerator IS a coilgun, and if the chemical components of the bullets are removed, then you get a few things that the description doesn't actually say…

1.) If you are removing chemical acceleration entirely, than ammo can possibly get much, much smaller. This means that, possibly, more ammo can be put in the same space, or the same amount of ammo be put in a smaller space

2.) It might be quiet. There is no gas, so you don't need a supressor to take care of the gas. However, it might be loud due to capacitor discharge (which is part of the report of a lasgun). Presumably, the Whisper-Bolt Discharger is also some modifications to the capacitors to make them quieter when they discharge, so you might need to do that. If you were ordering from a place that can make whisper-bolt dischargers, than they would probably require less components to make this simpler mod. At least, no matter what you do, there won't be a muzzle flash or a visible bit of ammunition!

3.) It seems like this would actually work really, really well with an Ammo Backpack. It would just have to be a hybrid lasgun/solid penetrator ammo backpack, but it might be possible to still provide the full shots for a normal solid penetrator backpack, along with some extra power that could (as needed), be used for other things too… and you might be able to move some of the weight of the extra capacitors from the weapon itself to the backpack, so you don't have to carry it in your hands!

4.) Since it doesn't use any chemical explosives, you would also get the benefit of Void Rounds by doing this! And, depending on the design, it MIGHT even function underwater… apparently, coilguns actually favor long, high mass, solid projectiles (like metal spears)…

Oh!

5.) Since it is magnetically accelerated, recoil would be very very low; the weapon would gain the benefits of Recoil Baffling systems.

Actually I'm guessing that in standard imperial fashion, they did nothing but add the accelerator system and kept the chemical ammunition. Its also possible that it isn't magnetic in the first place; antigrav gets called maglev after all, but it wouldn't work in many locales or even planets, if it truly were magnetic.

"these projectile weapons are not reliant on the chemical reactions that normally propel bullets and shells, instead using powerful magnetic fields to hurl projectiles at great speed."

Iunnoo…

Hey, I have a question… based on the following items…

Anoxis Pattern Stingray Microwave Rifle: DH Inquisitors Handbook
Psyflame Ammunition: DH Daemon Hunter
Nephium Fuel Tank: RT Into the Storm.
Toxic Shot: RT Into the Storm
Toxin-Saturated Promethium: RT Hostile Acquisitions
High Grade Promethium: BC Core

What might one call equivalents of these various upgrades for an Anoxis Pattern Stingray Microwave Rifle? After all, this item can, rules as written, have these upgrades. However, it doesn't make sense to CALL those upgrades the same thing, so I am looking for renames and reflavorings of the upgrades that don't contradict canon and lore, and which make sense. I am especially thinking about this because I would want to give the item the Integrated Weapon upgrade from The Lathe Worlds (so it is connected to a techpriest's potentia coil for infinite power). I am thinking maybe some pieces that modify the power going into the weapon, so it is sort of a cross between ammo mod and weapon mod? What might work? I think I might have my new favorite weapon, if I can figure out ways to get as many of these as possible into the thing!

Gavinfoxx said:

Just call them different waves instead of Microwaves! :3

Gavinfoxx said:

You're incorrect.

1.) You still have to make room for a power supply. Either install a slot in the gun for batteries, or have the batteries integrated into the magazine. You're still going to be humping the same weight; the only difference is if you're going to be humping batteries or gunpowder.

2.) It would still make a loud crack from the projectile breaking the sound barrier. Silencers are supposed to be used in conjunction with subsonic ammunition, which sorta defeats the purpose of using a coilgun.

3.) The combination backpack seems quite complicated to make and heavy to wear. Not to mention, if either the power feed fails or the ammo feed jams, you're SOL. Even if the other one's still working. Stick with magazines. Or better yet, get a hellgun.

4.) Assuming the water doesn't short out the system. But otherwise, yes, it would work quite well in a vacuum.

5.) No, it would still have recoil, thanks to Newtonian physics. In fact, since it's being propelled at greater velocities, it would actually have even more recoil than a conventional gun. Recoil is a serious problem that plagues real-world railguns and coilguns. Even the Tau have to mount rail rifles on specially modified drones or use specially trained and braced snipers. Think .50 BMG levels of recoil.

Hi,

Personal favourite right now; Grapplehawk. And a shield to hide behind whilst my bird bails my ass out again.

Second choice if the hawks otherwise unavailable; Blather + Quick Draw + Hack Shotgun + Sprint!

Boss Gitsmasha said:

Yes. Same weight, same bulk, same amount of ammo in the pack . But the same bulk/weight/quantity for battery + projectiles rather than projectile+chemical propellant. So you aren't getting a reduction in ammo supply. Also, why wouldn't a 50' range shotgun SLUG be subsonic?? you are getting the damage and such out of the mass of the thing, not the overall velocity. And the Tau rail rifles are way, way, wayyyy longer range and higher velocity than this. Remember, this is based on a low-velocity shotgun SLUG, and coilgun rather than railgun. You are using extra mass rather than these tiny tiny tiny insanely fast pellets. And yea, newton, there would be recoil -- but as best as I can figure, the recoil would be less, since there isn't any wasted propellant coming out of the barrel or any explosions or anything…

Gavinfoxx said:

Whatever force is being exerted on the weapon's target is less than what is being exerted on the weapon (and individual firing)

I don't think Rail Rifles as written in 40k lore are that mindful of Newtonian physics. If a round is very good at penetrating it won't be transferring a lot of force on the target. (the round will punch through and preserve a good portion of it's kinetic energy) To transfer all of it's kinetic energy it would have to come to a full stop, thus not penetrating. These are very small rounds being fired at very high speeds. They should have a high pen, but I don't know why they're portrayed as being so destructive unless there are a multitude of these small rounds fired simultaneously. (thus increasing the mass and, if maintaining the same velocity, the recoil)

My favorite loadout? Combat Shotgun w/ Inferno Shells, and a Chainsword. I'm a man of simple tastes.

Gavinfoxx said:

If you're propelling more mass with greater force, you get higher recoil. For the gas expulsion, blank cartridges have negligible recoil compared to live rounds; the majority of the recoil comes from the propulsion of the projectile, which has much greater mass than the expanding propellant gas. And if you want to reduce recoil down to the level of a conventional firearm, you'd have to reduce the mass of the projectile (reducing damage) or the velocity (reducing range), and either choice would pretty much negate the advantages of a coilgun. You're not getting a reduction in ammo supply, as you point out, but thanks to the weight of the coilgun's power supply, be it batteries or a backpack power pack, you're not getting an increase either.

So what's the advantage of coilguns? Coilguns can be more powerful and longer-ranged than a comparable chem-burner slugthrower. However, the tradeoff to this power is greater recoil. So you'd better invest in some recoil dampeners unless you want a sore shoulder or wrist. And then there's the whole tech-heresy thing.

No:12 said:

u should look at the Meathammer is posted back on the 1st page it is perfect for your 2nd choice, very compact for sudden surprise!! and it still has a laser sight!!

Hi,

AngelofDeath, yeah but it just wont fit in my coat pocket!!!

No:12 said:

get a bigger coat pocket .. and it should at the size mine is… it a close in weapon only we have it it explained as pistol grip with 3 barrels 3.5" long but then again it range bands 1PB, 2S, 6M, 9L,12E

As an experienced pistol-knave, my Throne Agent constantly fights the urge to acquire an entire armoury of pistols, thrown blades, digital weapons, micro grenades and Throne knows what else at every turn. Fortunately, he favours Master-Crafted Ryza Pattern Plasma Pistols, so any other personal weapon he carries is for those precious few situations that can't be solved with the application of the miniature sun guns.

As for other fun toys for the aspiring Gunfighter Saint, a brace of Maglev Impellor-Upgraded Ripper Pistols (with Integral Suppressors please, Father Candlemas!) would be shockingly effective against pretty much anything with a pulse, and Bolt Pistols, with their excellently rounded stats and wide array of fun ammunition types, are pretty **** nice too, not to mention a big status symbol.

Though I haven't gotten it done yet, I'm sorely tempted to commission a Sanctified or Anointed Revolver chambered for Exitus Rounds. I think it's just the right kind of eccentric and exorbitant for an Inquisitor of the Noble-Born Scum variety. XD

Another favourite is the Cadence Widower. Sure, it's no Exitus rifle, but I honestly feel that it's better for a public Assassination; concealable, versatile, still quite powerful and above all else, pretty much untraceable.

As for reasonably priced wonders; flamers and hand flamers are often underestimated in my experience, plus there's a wide array of fun and extra-burney fuel types out there for them. A Good or Best quality .54 Tranter is quite affordable and surprisingly potent with even cheap special ammo such as manstoppers or expander rounds, and I've wanted an over-under configuration Twin-Linked Duelling Las ever since I got a new and interesting life-threatening wound from one.

Oh! Never forget the value of harsh language, the Unarmed Warrior/Unarmed Master talents (Fatigue!), or a small but densely packed pouch of thrones to the back of the head…

Alekzanter said:

Sorry to be that guy with the rulebook, but combining a Dueling Las with a Hotshot Pack ain’t a thing. The weapon’s entry in the Inquisitor’s Handbook makes note of the Valentine’s special power cell already being a unique form of hot-shot.

The good news is that Belasco Deathworks makes a Dueling Las that is not only more powerful, but can accept a Hotshot, or at least says absolutely nothing to suggest that it can’t. That one’s in the Rogue Trader Corebook, though.